Daemon X' story, is it really that bad? or is everyone just giving it a hard time.

[CarsonTheOneAndOnly]

lets not divulge into simplistic smooth brain caveman responses like "herp derp the game is good/bad lol I share thoughts good." it clearly says discussions in the top tab.
the TLDR is that as a stand alone game, it doesn't quite hit the mark but if it had a sequel to flush out the components... that would be something worth hoping for.
the main developer came from a game development team who made a game called armored core which turned into a highly praised series that flew too close to the sun. the series came from humble beginnings on the ps 1 but it has been making advancements in every subsequent creation which daemon x machina has obviously taken some or rather a lot of components and ran with it. the important part about this game is that it brings a more down to earth story arch with more tangable characters in the game. and while armored core and daemon x machina dont share the same universe its important to understand the improvements made in the meta. while certain components of the original were most likely patented much of the game feels the same as the other. its for this reason why the story arch comes so important to the game. so why do people hate it? well the characters are written to cater to a younger audience that hasn't grown up with the predecessor and knowing the demograph is constantly bombarded with more STIMULI-ACTION-FUN-MORE ACTION- LIGHTS- AMAZINGNESS. that much has to be aparent. there is not much in the story that actually dips in the action side and while some of the animators aren't new to the style of animation much of the industries labour is completed by interns that are lead by the veterans. in so doing the process can be cheaper but consequently the product is compromised hence the lack of animations when the characters speak during the mission dialogue. the writing must have been restricted by this issue as much of the concepts would have to but cut down in order to complete dead lines which leads to a sub par product in the end. games like gundam where the player can roam the facility and talk to npc's aren't a new concept but that semi- hub based gameplay loop is not exactly something that can be copy and pasted in between different companies due to copyright laws. especially when your competing with bandai namco. they have a dark legal history of taking people to the cleaners much like disney.
objectively the game establishes a clear story with protagonists and antagonists and while it seems that the game is trying to be edgy with the paragon antagonist that is an anti-hero the whole thing tends to fall on its face with a HUH!? ending. which is why this game is what I would like to call a, "stepping stone game." it requires a sequel to make the series shine. but without a sequel and judging it in a vacuum..... yeah I can see why people dong care for the story. there is too many conflicts to bring up in one game alone. the devs obviously want there to be a corperation war but dont do much beyond mentioning that you are technically freelance mercenaries working in a company that you are endentured to so not really freelance more like obligated labourers that resemble agents of chaos where companies have no qualms against hiring you or the guy next to you to perform security work that directly oppose another company that is hiring you or the guy next to you to steal or destroy a product. its essentially the wild west but no one knows who is doing the right thing or why. survival is the aim of the game and that is why the pilots dont hesitate to take on who ever is hiring. not doing work means not eating or worse being thrown out of the facility which is a death sentence. you have your choice. kill your companions if they are competing on a counter contract or get kicked out. which is really odd because aside from 2 characters in the game. no one really kills anyone. seems as though the pilots have made a sort of truce to not lethally kill their competitors. even the bad guys dont actually kill your hired companions. the aim of the game aparently is to simply disable the other pilot..... so long as no one else is saying it Im gonna say it. NINTENDO WANTS TO KEEP APPEARANCES THAT THEY ARE A FAMILY FRIENDLY COMPANY AND THATS THIS GAMES BIGGEST PROBLEM! seriously. this game would have been free to do a lot more with it if they just made the game for pc but Im guessing that bridges were burned when trying to get the game published for xbox or playstation and making games for pc is a chaotic market for crack copying and is a network minefield.
the kojima parti....I mean femto particals is an interesting concept that doesn't get answered well. its kinda like trapper waves in eureka seven or spiral energy in guran lagan.
the immortals.... personally I have no problem with this being an issue in the game. An AI antagonist is a good antagonist. it never sleeps, it never gives up. it still has a weakness for the humans to exploit but at a large cost so the best current option is to simply maintain its sovernty by keeping its enemy reinforcements to a minimum because taking on the main computer is obviously going to be nigh impossible.
the fact that the pilots are all clones and that part is eluded to because the corperations are so readily able to through your lives away with no regard for your safety. thats why I think grief is a better character than a lot of people him credit for. regarding the abandoned clones hidden away in cryostasis pods he refers to them as brothers and sisters and wants to protect them. he wants to give humanity another chance and has cut all early ties in order to do that. which is more akin to the upgrade system in the game. every upgrade you get shifts you farther and farther away from your corporeal form into something else. but just because you no longer look human doesn't mean you have lost your humanity. you are just evolving into something greater and thats the real story of this game. the evolution of humanity. humanity is dying that much is established in the beginning of the story. its time for the previous generation to step aside and let a new form step into the light and lead the species to the future. thats this games message. and that is why I think this game isn't a bad story but you have to really consider all the detail layed out in order to see the big picture. its a smart game. not a good story at face value. but it does take some consideration of its fans in order to make it worth while. I dont want to say its brilliant because its a story that has been obviously strong armed by corporate public relations than simply being free to tell the tale as it was intended.

as for the ice cream, ask yourself why after every depressing moment in a japanese game would have a happy go lucky thing to follow up. much like the porter scene in shakespear and the crazy zany orange drink commercial at the beginning of every commercial break of medocu magica. its freaken depressing and depression based suicide is very high in that part of the world. its high here in america too but for some reason our society is told to just suck it up but Im rambling.

[M3chaMike]

Ok so I already posted something about the story in a similar thread but because the story frustrates me so much I don't care I'll do it again.

First and foremost, I have to point out one or two flaws in your line of thinking. Firstly, Daemon X Machina isn't a Nintendo first party game. Nintendo wasn't forcing or pressuring the developers to make it family friendly, that decision was entirely done by the developers.

Even so, the problems with the writing don't stem from being family friendly or kid friendly at all. In fact, it would have been a drastic improvement to have a simpler story.

The main problem is the world-building itself doesn't make sense. The characters don't fit where they're placed in the world. And the characters actions and motivations don't line up with each other.

Orbital is supposed to be a mercenary organization to fight against the Immortal threat. Officially corporate interests shouldn't have any hold over it since it's main purpose is to fight and destroy an active warlike threat.
It's even stated multiple times in the story that mercenaries have never worked against each other for the past at least 100 years. BG literally mentions a century. That it's happening during your storyline is an anomaly in the setting.

So why are there different merc outfits within Orbital? It would make sense for there to be maybe 1 or 2 separate large merc groups competing with Orbital, but it makes no sense for there to be these sub-factions. Especially when so many of them operate so completely different from one another. Some of them are prisoners, some of them are nobles, some are soldiers, etc.

It would make far more sense if the game were centered around you working for specific corporations, looking to reclaim land and technology that had been taken by the Immortals and other corporations.

You know what game series basically does this story, but better? Armored Core.

And yes, I get the whole theming of losing your humanity by augmenting yourself closer to the AI you have been sent to fight. It's certainly an interesting idea, but a decent theme or idea doesn't make a good story.

A good story is about storytelling. Anyone can make a story with a lot of really interesting ideas, that doesn't take effort.
What makes a good story is good presentation, and in that sense Daemon X Machina fails in almost every aspect, unfortunately.

[CarsonTheOneAndOnly]

ya and I respect that. unfortunately that post is plagued with kids that have the aforementioned simple minded herp derp answers.
and yes I agree that throwing the literary spaghetti ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks isn't the best method for story telling. Im not really trying to give them a break. what I would hope that maybe filling in some blanks with a fan based puzzle that is pieced together that maybe it might been seen as an earnest attempt worth while to desire a sequel.
as for the nintendo comment there has been a long standing trend outside of a few exceptions where the ratings have been beyond the regular e for everyone and very few have ventured beyond the mature rating. mad world and no more heroe's coming to mind. but I chalk that up to nintendo trying to test the waters. where in armored core I doesn't exactly say you are killing other pilots, you did have a bounty hunter list and lo and behold you couldn't fight them ever again. to me its about extrapolating information based on the nuances in the game where they are avoiding everything to do with killing the story characters as much as possible. they even make mention of having to salvage you from the bottom of the ocean if you forget to use your rocket boosters while skimming over the water. saying if memory serves correctly. "if you forget you will have to stay down there for 6 hours if you sink, before we can get a recovery drone to get ya out."

yeah Im with you that having them pick and choose your corporation and sticking with it would be good but thats pretty much the premise for armored core four and onward so I think that would be a copyright infringement. (I didn't get the luxury of playing the earlier titles, sorry). but that game did indeed wrap their story up in a nice little bow.
as for the century truce I have no say on that as its been a while since I played the campaign and I cant remember that detail but thats good to know.

considering that the game ends off with the player leaving on a space ship to the stars I would be satisfied with a story arch where we play multiple stories of our companions still back on earth perhaps a certain grieving brother might stumble upon some old cloning tech and might accidently make an evil clone of his late brother who becomes a foolhardy Dr. Frankinstein and the group spends a large amount of the game playing cat and mouse trying to figure out who is sabotaging their networks and facility. maybe spades had a lover that is acting as an agent of chaos blaming the pilots for the death of her lover. this has nothing to do with the original game I just think it would be good as the sequel.

[RexEviL]

TLDR: Read a book for story, play games for fun.

[Death]

The story and story delivery were... terrible.
Having characters dressed up as Shibuya rejects and lolita goths and having them exchange pointless banter back and forth about accepting contracts and how they dont want to work with so and so because of 'reasons' is insulting to our intelligence and childish.

None of the mercenaries acted like they had any military backgrounds. They behaved like angst ridden teenagers bickering over popularity contests.

The A.I. that oversaw missions never gave any intelligent feedback or suggestions, and pointed out the obvious threats. Rather than inform of what type of gear to bring, or tactics to employ, or even suggestions to improve combat efficiency, it basically stated crap like "Western VII has also accepted the contract". That's nice... but how does that help us accomplish the mission?

Even armored core at least tried to keep a military contractor theme with its writing. This game's writing was all over the place, trying to cram as many cringe inducing anime tropes in each dialogue as it could.

The character roster is literal who's who of nearly EVERY cringe-inducing anime trope on the checklist.

Some of the "mercenaries" attempted to discuss what came down to watered down pseudo-philosophical drivel about the nature of fighting and war...
which is not what mercenaries are concerned about.

Which brings me to another thing that irritates me: The inability to kill characters.
If you can see the ones that will cause you problems during the mission right away, you should be able to take them out so that you can fulfill the contract without unnecessary complications. But no... the game gave these headache inducing characters plot-armor for the sake of padding out its "story".

The gameplay and mecha aesthetics are great, but the story and characters are a dumpster fire that should've been doused a looong time ago.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by RexEviL:

TLDR: Read a book for story, play games for fun.

was looking for this. Thanks!

[Daikatan]

I liked story enough.

I think it's salty 40yo armored core fans who played DxM and got shocked how "animoo" it is.

[CarsonTheOneAndOnly]

im one of those fans and I still liked the game. it might not have been very palatable littered with bad dialogue but the very concept of individual characters that are more tangible is a very welcome concept. the combat was very entertaining, the sword combos are fantastic, and I love the idea of allocating the power to your firearms, speed and armour. the massive bosses are great. and the boss battles are challenging. I'm not sure why those guys hate the game so much but some armored core fans still love the game and are just happy that the series isn't exactly dying even if its transitioned from its older form of narrative.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Daikatan:

I liked story enough.

I think it's salty 40yo armored core fans who played DxM and got shocked how "animoo" it is.

Yeah I'm a huge old school AC fan myself (4 and 4 answers was just dumb imo) and I really enjoyed the more linear progression of this story and the whole being intertwined with existence/universe is crazy, but I feel like you gotta be open minded to really enjoy the concept.

This is basically a better AC 4/4answers spiritually to me just sucks they never bothered adding new content or new exploration missions or even new types for dungeon PvE

[dragon90l]

Originally posted by Ƶeta:

Originally posted by Daikatan:

I liked story enough.

I think it's salty 40yo armored core fans who played DxM and got shocked how "animoo" it is.

Yeah I'm a huge old school AC fan myself (4 and 4 answers was just dumb imo) and I really enjoyed the more linear progression of this story and the whole being intertwined with existence/universe is crazy, but I feel like you gotta be open minded to really enjoy the concept.

This is basically a better AC 4/4answers spiritually to me just sucks they never bothered adding new content or new exploration missions or even new types for dungeon PvE

i never understood why the older ac fans hated 4 and 4a

[CarsonTheOneAndOnly]

probably too fast for them. but if im honest there were hidden weapons that could be found in armored core last raven and its earlier titles, which was a certain element of discovery in the game. but in armored core 4 and four answer it was pretty straight forward. you could change the sequence of events in a very few instances but 4 and four answer was for the most part pretty linear. still the most fun in the series especially compared to 5 and verdict day. why it dropped the aerial combat who knows but it was the nail in the coffin for the series.

[Hydremajor117]

the only thing that annoys me is how the mercs don't catch onto the fact the corpos are pulling some stupid sh*t just to declare themselves king sh%t

Admittedly it makes sense that the corpos would basically start a war for control of femto supplies in the oval considering its basically the single most potent energy source on the planet and the very basis of the most advanced tech on the planet

Still the one part that does seem kinda hard to look over is the mercs just accepting (or just not picking up on) the fact there's gigantic ruins with alien technology at the center of the oval

[CarsonTheOneAndOnly]

Unfortanately we are old enough to recognise the trope of the story very early on. We have seen the story a lot in so many titles from anime, gaming, comics/manga. Its just an old hat. Thats just our perspective as we get older. The point of the game is to sell to a newer crowd and unfortunately they needed to cater to a younger audience. Its just the way it is. So its not a matter of is the the game good. To us being the older crowd the underlying question is how does it compare to its spiritual predessecors. That doesnt make it a bad game, we just arent the target anymore. On the bright side we can use unreal 5 for free and learn to make the games we like.

[ifyucantbeatmexd]

ill be honest i could only read half of your post, it's bit long and i always thought my posts are long lol
but i get your point. im a big AC fan, i try take take DxM for what it is, like i do with any game, even though im not going to be able to help comparing it to AC since it shares some of the concepts and mechanics and even devs.
what i like about AC games and FS games in general is that the gameplay is front and center, and story exposition and cinematics dont just take a back seat, they're trailing behind the car so to speak. which i exactly how i like my games. i literally have some weird problem i guess where i just cannot get invested in the story or characters in games in general, i just dont care, i dont like fiction in general. FS games and AC in particular have this nice sense of 'anonymity' to them. most of their game characters tend to have rather blank, impersonal faces (king's field, souls...), that is if they are not hidden in a suit of armor, or nested inside a giant robot, which most of the time, they are. their lips dont even move! and i love that. less time and budget spent on creating fancy facial animations means more time spent creating and refining good gameplay.
AC is all about the gameplay. with the exception of AC:VD when your AC blows up or a few CGI scenes here and there, you'll never see a human figure in these games. yes there is a lot of lore but most of that is pretty much exclusively contained in official japanese art/guide books.
my point is this game is very story heavy which is fine! i dont skip any cutscenes, i try to follow along but i quickly lose the plot anyway lol. but they gameplay is just so very lacking compared to AC
this is not a terrible game, it's just severely lacking in content, by which i mean that which armored core was so good at: mission design and challenge level. this game has quite boring and repetitive missions with almost no structure to them and no resistance. you just blaze through them like it's nothing. not much satisfaction is gained from that. in AC games i had to build my mechs sometimes for every missions depending on what objective i wanted to achieve or if i was going for an S-Rank. this game? meh. ive used just a rifle and some gun arms and blazed through the entire game.
and the achievements say a lot as well. "Destroy 100,000 enemy A.I"? Seriously? Not going to happen bc this game does not warrant that kind of grind.

[Hydremajor117]

Come to think of it

The whole Solomon thing was never explained

[CarsonTheOneAndOnly]

this game is something that needs a sequel to be fully appreciated I think. though I also think dummy dumbs do their best to get everyone on board the hate train because destroying a product seems to be the best thing going for people these days.