Native American expansion or mod ?

[Amyranth]

Can we hope for a Native american expansion <3 I'd love to play some native american or pre-Columbian era civilizations ruling the world ! old maps of those times exist so why not ? Are there already mods out there that have these things ? Do we have a chance to maybe see it in a DLC at some point ?

[Darklordnj]

No chance as dlc.

[Jackets]

You could try the mod After the End
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3192256710

I believe it features some American Indian factions

[jim281062]

Should be a DLC soon. Will probably drop just before the Lunar Conquistadors DLC where we can conqueror the moon

[Amyranth]

Originally posted by Jackets:

You could try the mod After the End
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3192256710

I believe it features some American Indian factions

Looks absolutely great ! going to check this one out, thank you !

[Wokelander]

Originally posted by jim281062:

Should be a DLC soon. Will probably drop just before the Lunar Conquistadors DLC where we can conqueror the moon

I mean I'd play that 😄

[endymionologist]

Originally posted by Darklordnj:

No chance as dlc.

Too many people still upset about Sunset Invasion in CK2.

Originally posted by jim281062:

Should be a DLC soon. Will probably drop just before the Lunar Conquistadors DLC where we can conqueror the moon

Note that not only are Aztecs a CK2 DLC culture/religion that is compatible with the save file converter to EUIV, EUIV console commands allow you to spawn a Stellaris-Synthetic country.

[Cinemax]

The issue is Sunset Invasion. In CKII they did a DLC, from a third party developer, that made no sense with the goal to "balance" the threat from the East with a new one from the West. So they added events to suggest the Aztecs discovered ocean worthy vessels and decide to hit you with 2 90K deathstacks and dumping disease on your counties (a reverse smallpox blanket, if you will) and human sacrifice for their captives. They're really easy if you happened to be anyone in the British Isles and started from Charlemagne since you'll have blobbed and teched out to an insane degree by the time they show up.

The DLC was a disaster, I can't imagine anyone played it more than once before disabling it, the only disable worthy DLC. Moreover, it broke the core tenants of the game by being alt history. Any inclusion of the West would break this tenant, and they are eager to avoid the same mistake.

[Danny]

During the time of Ck3 the native Americans in now the US and Canada were mostly just tribals at best.
Only once you get to the Aztecs, Maya and Inca did you have something more advanced.

[endymionologist]

Originally posted by Danny:

During the time of Ck3 the native Americans in now the US and Canada were mostly just tribals at best.
Only once you get to the Aztecs, Maya and Inca did you have something more advanced.

No. The Cahokia state didn't collapse until somewhere in the 13th or 14th centuries, and the first five nations of the Haudenosaunee were stable settled agricultural societies by the end of the Medieval Warm period. These wouldn't be interesting foes for the game, lacking ironworking, but there were settled agricultural societies throughout Eastern North America on par with what could be found in many parts of Europe and Asia that persisted until the contact plagues killed 50-95% of the people in those polities.

[Pyromaiden]

Originally posted by Danny:

During the time of Ck3 the native Americans in now the US and Canada were mostly just tribals at best.
Only once you get to the Aztecs, Maya and Inca did you have something more advanced.

This is a crude understanding of pre-Columbian Americas informed primarily by racist tropes of backwards, unwashed savages living in huts and wearing loincloths.

Amerindian peoples throughout the continent were already building cities, practicing agriculture, and so on. The notion that they were just a bunch of tribals is insulting to the deep histories of these peoples and what they managed to achieve long before the arrival of Europeans who would subsequently erase as much evidence of those civilizations as possible and develop a pseudohistorical myth that painted them as 'primitive' or 'barbaric' before the arrival of 'enlightened' Christendom.

Even if they were all "just tribals" as you falsely claim large sections of the current map is composed of "just tribals" so this really isn't an argument for their exclusion at all.

The only legitimate argument for excluding the entire rest of the world is that it may end up straining the game's resources to the point of it being unplayable.

[Rollin88z]

Why are you getting offended by the word tribal?
I don't think this is the debate for you if the word tribal is upsetting you. no offense inteneded.

They were, in fact, tribes. Ask any native person today.
They still have tribe members and typically belong to a specific tribe. You are the one painting it as a bad thing as if having a tribe is some regressive low iq thing. Personally, as a white person, i get jealous of people with tribal ancestry and tribe members. It seems like a cool brotherhood and I really respect the way they honor it. i wish i belonged to a tribe. It would be so sick.

You might be trolling in my opinion because a fair share of native american societies had slaves, all the way up until 1840 in some cases. They weren't seen as unwashed savages - they were actually feared as dangerous warriors who would not submit to the rule of colonial law oftentimes but the person spreading the racist tropes is actually you. Anyone who has read history knows what I'm talking about. Unwashed or unclean? we didn't exactly have plumbing back then. I don't know if you understand how physically dirty and filthy the average person was back then but it absolutely was not a thing to call other people dirty or unwashed or savages when literacy in north america was quite an interesting subject in itself. i mean old photos alone instantly dispel this false narrative that you're presenting.

And the loincloths... bro... do you understand why they did that?
It still is insanely hot in the jungle. It isn't racist to accurately portray what they legitimately wore which was climate correct and also the proper apparel for a running hunter/gatherer. They couldn't exactly wear pants and chase down a capybara or any other number of fast moving prey. I mean it was quite literally documented by explorers what they were wearing, and it was obvious when you read about how bad explorers struggled in their european apparel in the jungles, why they wore loincloths.









Anyway....
Back on the actual subject....



I think they should add the native american DLC. It would be so cool to play as different tribes and it would be awesome to form an early alternative to Canada or America etc. There is so much flavor and cool stuff that could be done with it.

It also would be an absolutely GORGEOUS part of the world to add. You guys know how beautiful it would look in CK3. Plus maybe you could create an early colonial kingdom and see how that goes? who knows. such a cool idea though.

Would really love to see all the scenarios that could happen - imagine also if a native tribe made it across the atlantic somehow and started taking over europe like in that one total war medieval dlc? haha i would absolutely love this dlc

[Danny]

If an America's DLC is added, it should be a separate game mode from the rest of the game.
As there was essentially no contact between there and the regular CK3 area during the time the game plays out in.
Maybe a few vikings made a few quick visits to North America, but that's barely just a quick event. Hardly worth mentioning.

[Cinemax]

Originally posted by Danny:

If an America's DLC is added, it should be a separate game mode from the rest of the game.
As there was essentially no contact between there and the regular CK3 area during the time the game plays out in.
Maybe a few vikings made a few quick visits to North America, but that's barely just a quick event. Hardly worth mentioning.

Erik the Red's visit is what triggered the Sunset Invasion some 500 years later. That's literally the lore of the DLC in the additional events if you are in the relevant area. There is no way they are opening up that wound again.

[Danny]

Originally posted by Cinemax:

Originally posted by Danny:

If an America's DLC is added, it should be a separate game mode from the rest of the game.
As there was essentially no contact between there and the regular CK3 area during the time the game plays out in.
Maybe a few vikings made a few quick visits to North America, but that's barely just a quick event. Hardly worth mentioning.

Erik the Red's visit is what triggered the Sunset Invasion some 500 years later. That's literally the lore of the DLC in the additional events if you are in the relevant area. There is no way they are opening up that wound again.

That was CK2, not Ck3

[Cinemax]

Originally posted by Danny:

Originally posted by Cinemax:

Erik the Red's visit is what triggered the Sunset Invasion some 500 years later. That's literally the lore of the DLC in the additional events if you are in the relevant area. There is no way they are opening up that wound again.

That was CK2, not Ck3

Yes, that's my point, they're not about to repeat the same mistakes they made with CKII. Specifically - no outsourcing and (of pertinence here) no alt history. That rule is why they won't do Charlemagne again even though that was the best start in CKII. The lack if reliable information meant much of the map was painted in speculation. Now apply that to the Americas, which only had oral history traditions in that time period. No chance in hell.