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Mentos Apr 2, 2023 @ 10:38am
Holy Order city Holder: You
I just noticed that the city I used to found the Knights Hospitaller is both under control of the order, and ME. I'm actually benefiting from it's taxes and levies. Normal?
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Crowkeeper Apr 2, 2023 @ 12:36pm 
Normal.
#1
Mentos Apr 2, 2023 @ 3:01pm 
Originally posted by Crowkeeper:
Normal.

That is..well that's dang near exploitative. I guess I should be giving away all of my cities.
#2
Crowkeeper Apr 2, 2023 @ 3:27pm 
Originally posted by Mentos:
Originally posted by Crowkeeper:
Normal.

That is..well that's dang near exploitative. I guess I should be giving away all of my cities.
Yes. You are also able to hire the Holy Order for free.
#3
wei270 Apr 2, 2023 @ 6:08pm 
no you lose all the benefit you would get from the city if there is a holy order, BUT what ever benefit you lose the holy order gain, so the richer the city the faster the holy order will grow. And there are many benefits from a strong holy order in your domain.
#4
AdmiralPiett Apr 2, 2023 @ 6:14pm 
Originally posted by Mentos:
Originally posted by Crowkeeper:
Normal.

That is..well that's dang near exploitative. I guess I should be giving away all of my cities.
it's not really an exploit because the holy order has to ask first for you to give it away. there's no decision to just give them away at will
#5
Mentos Apr 2, 2023 @ 6:34pm 
Originally posted by AdmiralPiett:
Originally posted by Mentos:

That is..well that's dang near exploitative. I guess I should be giving away all of my cities.
it's not really an exploit because the holy order has to ask first for you to give it away. there's no decision to just give them away at will

That's true. Sadly I turned down all their other requests not having realized the value yet. Not that I need them at this point, but a couple more phantom holdings couldn't hurt.
#6
Crowkeeper Apr 2, 2023 @ 7:34pm 
Originally posted by wei270:
no you lose all the benefit you would get from the city if there is a holy order, BUT what ever benefit you lose the holy order gain, so the richer the city the faster the holy order will grow. And there are many benefits from a strong holy order in your domain.
You get monthly income as well as the up front cost. They are literally leasing the land.
#7
Havan_IronOak Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:32pm 
Originally posted by Crowkeeper:
Yes. You are also able to hire the Holy Order for free.

Sure about that? I think I had to pay (in Piety) when I called them. Not that it mattered much... I had plenty of piety.

Of course so many factors enter into things I may be missing something.
Last edited by Havan_IronOak; Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:33pm
#8
AdmiralPiett Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:34pm 
Originally posted by Havan_IronOak:
Originally posted by Crowkeeper:
Yes. You are also able to hire the Holy Order for free.

Sure about that? I think I had to pay (in Piety) when I called them. Not that it mattered much... I had plenty of piety.
did you pick the right one? you can only call the one you're sponsoring for free

or maybe you weren't the main sponsor they were already around and just hit you up for an additional city
#9
Crowkeeper Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:36pm 
Originally posted by Havan_IronOak:
Originally posted by Crowkeeper:
Yes. You are also able to hire the Holy Order for free.

Sure about that? I think I had to pay (in Piety) when I called them. Not that it mattered much... I had plenty of piety.

Of course so many factors enter into things I may be missing something.
As long as they are in one of your directly controlled counties, yes.
#10
Mentos Apr 2, 2023 @ 9:22pm 
Originally posted by Crowkeeper:
Originally posted by Havan_IronOak:

Sure about that? I think I had to pay (in Piety) when I called them. Not that it mattered much... I had plenty of piety.

Of course so many factors enter into things I may be missing something.
As long as they are in one of your directly controlled counties, yes.

That's probably what he is missing. Since my leasee is in a duchy I no longer control(directly) I can't hire them for free anymore.
#11
kalanyr Apr 3, 2023 @ 12:22am 
You shouldn't need to directly control the duchy to get them for free, you just need to be the Patron (which means you're the first King or higher (possibly Duke in Iberia) in the De Facto hierachy of the Order's capital holding (usually their first one)).

Also AFACIT the size/development etc of the Holdings of an Order doesn't matter for their scaling it's purely how many they hold so you should try and give them crappy stuff preferably held by a Vassal Duke (outside Iberia) / Count, to minimise your loss.
Last edited by kalanyr; Apr 3, 2023 @ 12:24am
#12
titanopteryx Apr 3, 2023 @ 7:46am 
Originally posted by kalanyr:
You shouldn't need to directly control the duchy to get them for free, you just need to be the Patron (which means you're the first King or higher (possibly Duke in Iberia) in the De Facto hierachy of the Order's capital holding (usually their first one)).

Also AFACIT the size/development etc of the Holdings of an Order doesn't matter for their scaling it's purely how many they hold so you should try and give them crappy stuff preferably held by a Vassal Duke (outside Iberia) / Count, to minimise your loss.
Are you sure about that? You can look at the character info of the leader of the Holy order and look at the tooltips of his 3 resources and see how much he's making, and I'm pretty sure the more built up the holding, the more money and such he makes. Which brings up the question, when that Holy Order offers you money to lease one of your cities, does that money come from the leader of the Holy Order? Or does the money come from thin air?
#13
Mentos Apr 3, 2023 @ 9:48am 
When I lost control of Essex it told me that I was no longer the sponsor. Actually it glitches everytime my character dies, informing me again that I am not the sponsor. Sadly they no longer offer to lease land from me. Probably they can't afford it.

Edit: Also totally off-topic but I just want to share this screenshot I took yesterday.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2956898618

Look at that. Italy is gone. Replaced by an entirely different custom kingdom.

Last edited by Mentos; Apr 3, 2023 @ 9:52am
#14
kalanyr Apr 3, 2023 @ 7:21pm 
Originally posted by titanopteryx:
Originally posted by kalanyr:
You shouldn't need to directly control the duchy to get them for free, you just need to be the Patron (which means you're the first King or higher (possibly Duke in Iberia) in the De Facto hierachy of the Order's capital holding (usually their first one)).

Also AFACIT the size/development etc of the Holdings of an Order doesn't matter for their scaling it's purely how many they hold so you should try and give them crappy stuff preferably held by a Vassal Duke (outside Iberia) / Count, to minimise your loss.
Are you sure about that? You can look at the character info of the leader of the Holy order and look at the tooltips of his 3 resources and see how much he's making, and I'm pretty sure the more built up the holding, the more money and such he makes. Which brings up the question, when that Holy Order offers you money to lease one of your cities, does that money come from the leader of the Holy Order? Or does the money come from thin air?

Holy Orders can't actually do anything relevant with money though, they use the capital/realm bonuses of whoever hires them and their Levies/Knights are based on number of holdings. I guess that means the Holy Order holdings matter in a couple of pretty rare edge cases (Holy Orders' self raising for Great Holy Wars and if you can call a Holy Order in because the leader is a member of your Dynasty. )

The money for Holy Order expansion comes from thin air.
#15
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Crusader Kings III > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Apr 2, 2023 @ 10:38am
Posts: 15

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