Elevate the Kingdom of Mann and The Isles is a downgrade?

[Solitus]

Going for "King of all the Isles". Starting as Ivar the Boneless. And I don't know if it is because of Northern Lords DLC making Vikings even more overpowered; but especially with the first dynasty unlock "+100% fame and prestige from battles" I don't know why I would ever want to trade in the tribal government for feudal.

Low on prestige? go raiding in France or Wessex and kill armies double your size. Then go back to conquering. I guess eventually you'll need a kingdom to keep all the conquered duchies from splintering off; and it DOES make the Isle of Mann a nice holding.

What did you do? did you just conquer a random kingdom (scotland) to keep your land as you conquered all the Isles? or did you take the Kingdom of Mann descision?

[Stray952]

You should do the Ilse of Man trick last (if at all) because it switches you from tribal to feudal and upgrades all your tribal holds to feudal. Expansion after this is much more difficult.

The only motivation to go feudal I’ve ran into personally is that all the good counties are feudal. So you can conquer all you want, but you’re just handing those counties back to French or English nobles. You’re only ruling in name, it just kind of feels like an occupation that you know will be shrugged off eventually.

Have fun leap frogging into the Middle East, no idea how people pull that off in one lifetime

[Solitus]

Originally posted by Stray952:

You should do the Ilse of Man trick last (if at all) because it switches you from tribal to feudal and upgrades all your tribal holds to feudal. Expansion after this is much more difficult.

The only motivation to go feudal I’ve ran into personally is that all the good counties are feudal. So you can conquer all you want, but you’re just handing those counties back to French or English nobles. You’re only ruling in name, it just kind of feels like an occupation that you know will be shrugged off eventually.

Have fun leap frogging into the Middle East, no idea how people pull that off in one lifetime

Get enough Martial tree to unlock the right hand side of Chivalry, and the cheaper CB cost from Strategist. Then put the rest of your points into the whole of body tree; and pray. I did Blood Eagle all within Ivar's lifetime that way.

It is weird; but I never truly understood how to play a horde in EU4 (no dev, just pillage) but I understand it in CK3. All that matters is prestige; so build superior troops and go get into fights that you didn't start as a war. Win.

But yeah. I think Ivar just got the infirm trait. I might have been able to "Squirrel" in time, so he may be ok. but if succession is looming; I need a kingdom to keep everything I have!

[kalanyr]

There comes a point when the advantages from Tribal fall off in comparison to the Development bonus and Innovations (and thus better buildings) you get as a non-Tribals.

This will probably happen somewhere between 1000 and 1100 but by the time you start to feel the effects bite, you're going to be far enough behind that it's hard to catch up.

I mostly recommend you Feudalize when you've expanded as far as you can with Confederate Partition and have reached the point where the only thing blocking Early Medieval is the Culture Head being Tribal.

[ArchAngelOsis]

just go hastings spain to see how powerful feudal can be....I recommend getting to "buy claims" in the learning tree taking Asturias and eat the castille counties thus all of northern spain in 1 shot aside from Navarre, then if RNG wills it you marry all your children for powerful alliances and attack Andaulus whilst occupying western spain and portugal so they go in the flip...then you only have like 7 duchy wars left to unify the entire thing and when the phase is correct 10,000 renowned :P....I mean it would be sweeter if you could unite the spanish thrones like 1066 but its not terribly hard to get high partition and just melt all the kingdoms but one rule from Cordoba put Toledo on feudal elective so it passes to your primary heir as well to keep your crown at max power and develop the fk out of madrid to get its uni built as early as possible

[jerrypocalypse]

Originally posted by Solitus:

Going for "King of all the Isles". Starting as Ivar the Boneless. And I don't know if it is because of Northern Lords DLC making Vikings even more overpowered; but especially with the first dynasty unlock "+100% fame and prestige from battles" I don't know why I would ever want to trade in the tribal government for feudal.

Low on prestige? go raiding in France or Wessex and kill armies double your size. Then go back to conquering. I guess eventually you'll need a kingdom to keep all the conquered duchies from splintering off; and it DOES make the Isle of Mann a nice holding.

What did you do? did you just conquer a random kingdom (scotland) to keep your land as you conquered all the Isles? or did you take the Kingdom of Mann descision?

You'll get 100 years of still being able to raid normally after using the Kingdom of Mann decision. This is plenty of time to set yourself up to add the Practiced Pirates tradition to your culture near the end, allowing you to continue raiding as feudal after the 100 year bonus wears off. You'll need to pay prestige for the gold your raiders return with, but the prestige from battles will still outweigh that. It's still a good way to gather prestige and fame, as well as gold.

[PDX-Trinexx]

Originally posted by kalanyr:

There comes a point when the advantages from Tribal fall off in comparison to the Development bonus and Innovations (and thus better buildings) you get as a non-Tribals.

This will probably happen somewhere between 1000 and 1100 but by the time you start to feel the effects bite, you're going to be far enough behind that it's hard to catch up.

I mostly recommend you Feudalize when you've expanded as far as you can with Confederate Partition and have reached the point where the only thing blocking Early Medieval is the Culture Head being Tribal.

Seconding this; Tribal is incredibly powerful in the earlier years, but it falls off rapidly once post-tribal cultures start to really get their tech going. By the end of the game, Tribals are almost entirely toothless, with feudal armies able to stackwipe tribal armies 10x their size with ease.

[Solitus]

Originally posted by jerrypocalypse:

Originally posted by Solitus:

Going for "King of all the Isles". Starting as Ivar the Boneless. And I don't know if it is because of Northern Lords DLC making Vikings even more overpowered; but especially with the first dynasty unlock "+100% fame and prestige from battles" I don't know why I would ever want to trade in the tribal government for feudal.

Low on prestige? go raiding in France or Wessex and kill armies double your size. Then go back to conquering. I guess eventually you'll need a kingdom to keep all the conquered duchies from splintering off; and it DOES make the Isle of Mann a nice holding.

What did you do? did you just conquer a random kingdom (scotland) to keep your land as you conquered all the Isles? or did you take the Kingdom of Mann descision?

You'll get 100 years of still being able to raid normally after using the Kingdom of Mann decision. This is plenty of time to set yourself up to add the Practiced Pirates tradition to your culture near the end, allowing you to continue raiding as feudal after the 100 year bonus wears off. You'll need to pay prestige for the gold your raiders return with, but the prestige from battles will still outweigh that. It's still a good way to gather prestige and fame, as well as gold.

Unlike in CK2, I wasn't worried about losing access to raiding (since raiding in CK3 doesn't feel as good, I guess because there is less to spend gold on so there is less gold in the raids). What I was worried about was the transition from Prestige upkeep to Gold upkeep for MaA. But better than losing all the land I've conquered to my stupid sons who aren't happy unless they have a duchy of their own.

...do I still have time to murder all but one of my sons? *insert evil laugh*

[dwarfpcfan]

Elevate the Kingdom of Mann and the Isles is the most powerful kingdom level title founding decision in the game. On top of the 7500 free crack elite troops it makes the Isle of Mann your capital and makes it basically the best single county in the game by giving a county with 8 building slots + 4 from the city on the same Island. That's on top of the +20 to devellopment in your capital and the ridiculous bonuses to buildings speed and the cost reduction to building costs.

Making you feudal means you get access to much better buildings and can really stack bonuses to make absolutely OP strong troops.

So yes Elevating the Kingdom is totally worth it.

[jerrypocalypse]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

giving a county with 8 building slots + 4 from the city on the same Island.

I'm curious if and how this might change with the next update and rework of building slots.

[dwarfpcfan]

Originally posted by jerrypocalypse:

I'm curious if and how this might change with the next update and rework of building slots.

probably bugs that will cause crashes until they patch it :P