Playing as a vassal is broke, seriously broke

[Enoch]

Rebels uprise against your liege and if you do no join them, they surrender and you lose your land to the liege. If you do join them they siege YOUR city, then surrender when your liege gets to them, then every neighbor sends stacks of thousands of troops to take all your cities. What is the point then? No option to just sit back and play a chilled out diplo game without a bunch of bs?

[Razorblade]

If you don't want the burden of actually playing the game, you can always turn down the difficulty and turn up realm stability in the game rules.

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

If you don't want the burden of actually playing the game, you can always turn down the difficulty and turn up realm stability in the game rules.

One would think attacking an openly neutral party during a civil war would be self-defeating, since it only drives the neutral party to join your enemies.

But sure, go on bud.

[Enoch]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

If you don't want the burden of actually playing the game, you can always turn down the difficulty and turn up realm stability in the game rules.

Dude, that was such an elevated answer is wisdom....I have been playing the game, at least am still trying to play as a vassal when most of the community has given up for this very reason. You are in a catch 22, you lose no matter what decision you make. If you can't be anything more than pretentious and offer a helpful answer, just ignore the post because your wit is utter failure....

[Athmet]

And I guess you tried to look for answer on the different youtube videos ?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ck3+playing+as+vassal

Might be able to find some answers there and even more ?

[Barick]

Originally posted by AmesNFire:

Originally posted by Razorblade:

If you don't want the burden of actually playing the game, you can always turn down the difficulty and turn up realm stability in the game rules.

One would think attacking an openly neutral party during a civil war would be self-defeating, since it only drives the neutral party to join your enemies.

But sure, go on bud.

You are not neutral though. If you are on the kings side you provide him with a levy and if players worked like NPC's you would potentially be a knight too. It is annoying when rebels siege you but they have benefits for that and need to take land so they don't suffer from attrition and can reinforce their army.

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by Barick:

Originally posted by AmesNFire:

One would think attacking an openly neutral party during a civil war would be self-defeating, since it only drives the neutral party to join your enemies.

But sure, go on bud.

You are not neutral though. If you are on the kings side you provide him with a levy and if players worked like NPC's you would potentially be a knight too. It is annoying when rebels siege you but they have benefits for that and need to take land so they don't suffer from attrition and can reinforce their army.

Gameplay mechanics-wise perhaps, but that's a design flaw in my opinion.
Historically attacking a neutral vassal whose more concerned with the raiders destroying the villages and farmland in their land doesn't benefit anyone but the raiders who don't even like the rebels.

Edit: The idea that you were either with the king or against them was superficial for most of what we consider European 'medieval' history or simply non-existent.

[titanopteryx]

Play as Bohemia in the later start date as a vassal of the HRE. You're big and powerful and if you lose a county to the emperor you have a bunch more. Also remember to adjust your vassal contract to protect your titles from revocation.

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by titanopteryx:

Play as Bohemia in the later start date as a vassal of the HRE. You're big and powerful and if you lose a county to the emperor you have a bunch more. Also remember to adjust your vassal contract to protect your titles from revocation.

Your heir will be elected Emperor if your starting character isn't.

[VoiD]

I don't mind it when a war breaks out and you can fight the rebels to save your own ass, as you sould.

But it's fubar when your liege gets some random rebellion from your land and just accept their demands, breaking your duchy/kingdom apart without an option, warning or pop up asking if you'd like to fight them all instead since your liege surrendered, I've had an AI liege once that somehow, even though it was doing pretty well, got heavy into debt, making his entire rebel rebel over and over again, and he kept giving away my lands to rebels randomly, until I gave up, became independant and conquered the entire empire back in a single generation, the whole system is kinda broken, is this still happening?

[dwarfpcfan]

Lieges are always dumb because the A.I is programmed to give the player challenges (it is a game after all). There is also the expectation that you do not remain a vassal forever, eventually you're supposed to either usurp your liege or claim indepence. The A.I again promotes this with events.

[avil]

Only stupid thing is AI liege giving up demanded land that belongs to you without your saying in it. You can't refuse and fight rebels instead of liege.

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

Lieges are always dumb because the A.I is programmed to give the player challenges (it is a game after all). There is also the expectation that you do not remain a vassal forever, eventually you're supposed to either usurp your liege or claim indepence. The A.I again promotes this with events.

Which is silly and ultimately self-defeating unless the game was specifically set to a lower difficulty for such a player.

[Enoch]

Thanks for the suggestions. After sinking in about 50 hours into it, I got the feel for it. It is different than CK2 for sure. I tried just playing Sri Lanka as non vassal to get a feel for the game, quite OP nation to be honest, as I was able to beat down any rebellions or raids quite easily.

From there, I tried Holland as a vassal and ignored France's war and never sent anything to my liege and just minded my own business. In time, my lieges were eating out of my hand and I was taking Frisia piece by piece. With that buffer, I have been able to play pretty much left alone. I did have to reload a couple of times due to yes, my liege giving away land from my territory again. I found if I just ignore the Norse raiders and let them get some gold, they move on and get beat down and have to come back through my land anyway to get back to Sweden. Raise troops then, knock them off quick and get a pretty fat stack of gold before anyone can rush in and siege anything on my end for my liege to give away.

I will go back to Bohemia again after I get succession down. Succession is the focus right now, figuring out how to make sure my land stays in the family, But, I still say the system is broke on vassals. I understand the game wanting you to become independent but not even giving you 5 years before a rebellion pops up and if you fight for the rebels, you loose and if you fight the rebels, your liege gives up the land to them. I did find if you don't want rebels like that, just make it even culture or convert the culture to yours. Demands for lower taxes is easy to just say "ok" without any bloodshed.

Overall, my initial post as it being "broke" was more of frustration than anything. It is not completely broke but I feel the game could work with you a little more not so much clearly against you. Paradox' help system in the game makes Ubisoft's look great.

Thanks again for the help.

TLDR - play as Sri Lanka 867 to get a feel for the game. Then try Holland 867 as a vassal and ignore all the wars. Do build up troops tho as Norse are going to want your northeast county. Your liege will give it up to them, he is not going to help you at all. In fact, you can attack him later and get all of Frisia and title that to yourself.

[Enoch]

Originally posted by VoiD:

I don't mind it when a war breaks out and you can fight the rebels to save your own ass, as you sould.

But it's fubar when your liege gets some random rebellion from your land and just accept their demands, breaking your duchy/kingdom apart without an option, warning or pop up asking if you'd like to fight them all instead since your liege surrendered, I've had an AI liege once that somehow, even though it was doing pretty well, got heavy into debt, making his entire rebel rebel over and over again, and he kept giving away my lands to rebels randomly, until I gave up, became independant and conquered the entire empire back in a single generation, the whole system is kinda broken, is this still happening?

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I am talking about and this happens in the 1st 5 years, when you do not even have anything. Not only that, it gives you numbers like rebels 1500 vs. liege's 300. Ok, well lets side with the rebels and fight this whimpy liege...nope, he gives up and ou lose the land o the rebels. Ok, lets fight on the side of our liege, oh, he is overmatched and he gives up to the rebels. Now, here comes every neighbor coming in with stacks of 5000 men and you get sieged. How the f they get 5000 men the game JUST STARTED!? I am being thrown into fully developed nations just waiting for me to war someone. If you sit back and do nothing....your liege cedes all your land to the rebels.

I want tax money from my vassals, I NEED tax money form my vassals. The AI liege seems to not want to be bothered, which is fine, but then why does he only have 300 men? Po boy should want the vassal with the land right??>?

Like I said, this is at the start of the game....I can see later on but dang, within the 1st 5 years?? c'mon....

[AmesNFire]

Originally posted by Enoch:

Originally posted by VoiD:

I don't mind it when a war breaks out and you can fight the rebels to save your own ass, as you sould.

But it's fubar when your liege gets some random rebellion from your land and just accept their demands, breaking your duchy/kingdom apart without an option, warning or pop up asking if you'd like to fight them all instead since your liege surrendered, I've had an AI liege once that somehow, even though it was doing pretty well, got heavy into debt, making his entire rebel rebel over and over again, and he kept giving away my lands to rebels randomly, until I gave up, became independant and conquered the entire empire back in a single generation, the whole system is kinda broken, is this still happening?

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I am talking about and this happens in the 1st 5 years, when you do not even have anything. Not only that, it gives you numbers like rebels 1500 vs. liege's 300. Ok, well lets side with the rebels and fight this whimpy liege...nope, he gives up and ou lose the land o the rebels. Ok, lets fight on the side of our liege, oh, he is overmatched and he gives up to the rebels. Now, here comes every neighbor coming in with stacks of 5000 men and you get sieged. How the f they get 5000 men the game JUST STARTED!? I am being thrown into fully developed nations just waiting for me to war someone. If you sit back and do nothing....your liege cedes all your land to the rebels.

I want tax money from my vassals, I NEED tax money form my vassals. The AI liege seems to not want to be bothered, which is fine, but then why does he only have 300 men? Po boy should want the vassal with the land right??>?

Like I said, this is at the start of the game....I can see later on but dang, within the 1st 5 years?? c'mon....

If you're talking about the viking armies, they have event troops that will greatly aid them in conquering new territories early on.