Crusader Kings III

Crusader Kings III

View Stats:
jpinard Feb 25, 2022 @ 2:41pm
Spiritual Revocable or Temporal Revocable?
I'm reforming my religion and I know to go Theocratic instead of Lay. But I still don't quite understand the difference between Spiritual and Temporal Revocable. Which would I want to get the most money and troops? Or does one give more flexibility than the other?
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Ashling Feb 25, 2022 @ 2:51pm 
Spiritual revocable means you are unable to choose your court chaplain, but you still have the option to fire them (every ten years, from the character interactions menu I'm guessing)

Temporal revocable means you can choose specifically who will be the Chaplin from your court.
jpinard Feb 25, 2022 @ 2:55pm 
Originally posted by Triangle:
Spiritual revocable means you are unable to choose your court chaplain, but you still have the option to fire them (every ten years, from the character interactions menu I'm guessing)

Temporal revocable means you can choose specifically who will be the Chaplin from your court.

Does one give more troops and gold to you vs. the other?
Ashling Feb 25, 2022 @ 3:03pm 
Originally posted by jpinard:
Does one give more troops and gold to you vs. the other?
The reason I didn't answer that is because I'm not really sure? Maybe in like an abstract way it does matter, but I don't think it'll matter much.

The main thing you're going to want to do is have your Chaplin enjoy your presence and it'll be easier to do that with Temporal as you can just choose people that like you. I think, I'm not sure, that'll consistently give you 50% of the gold income from churches so long as you continually employ Chaplins that like you (could be wrong).

However, what I can say definitively, is either way it's going to be fine. With temporal you're probably going to be microing who's the priest while with spiritual you're probably going to be microing the priest's opinion of you. Generally, I would say temporal is going to give you more options and flexibility.
Last edited by Ashling; Feb 25, 2022 @ 3:04pm
jerrypocalypse Feb 25, 2022 @ 3:35pm 
I would agree that if you get to choose, go with temporal. I don't know if there's a difference in taxes, but being in able to pick exactly who you want is great. It sucks getting stuck with a priest that has a low learning skill.
jpinard Feb 25, 2022 @ 4:34pm 
So should I go "Lay Spiritual" or "Theocratic Temporal" for my Clerical Tradition and Head of Faith? I'm trying to maximize gold and troops.
jpinard Feb 25, 2022 @ 4:53pm 
Hmmm, so I went from:
(Clerical Tradition) Theocratic - (Head of Faith) None - (Clerical Appointment) - Temporal Revocable

to:

(Clerical Tradition) Theocratic - (Head of Faith) Spiritual - (Clerical Appointment) - Temporal Revocable

and have lost 2 gold per month. That's about 20% of my Temple income. What happened?

Is this because half my counties are of a different religion before the schism? If not, then why would you use anything other than None for the Head of Faith?

Sorry, I'm so confused.
Ashling Feb 25, 2022 @ 6:14pm 
Originally posted by jpinard:
So should I go "Lay Spiritual" or "Theocratic Temporal" for my Clerical Tradition and Head of Faith? I'm trying to maximize gold and troops.
I don't like Lay Spiritualist because I think it includes churches into your domain limit and castles are worth just so much more. But you do lose out on making yourself the head of the church and, I believe, your churches earn you less money with Theocratic.

In order to fully answer your question someone would have to do a lot of math balancing a lot of different small things and I don't think anyone's done on that yet. I think you can earn more money if you go theocratic because you'll be able to treat church buildings as a passive form of income while building your castles to be better, but, as I said, churches do lose money overall so this isn't like a scientific fact. It's a gut feeling.

Overall, though, I'm pretty sure a religion's tenets and setting the role of faith to be recruitment would have a far greater impact than whether or not it's spiritual or theocratic.

Originally posted by jpinard:
and have lost 2 gold per month. That's about 20% of my Temple income. What happened?

Is this because half my counties are of a different religion before the schism? If not, then why would you use anything other than None for the Head of Faith?
Maybe, it could also be because some of your vassals are of the old faith. The head of faith shouldn't be interfering with how much money you're making.
snuggleform Feb 25, 2022 @ 7:03pm 
Oh no, did you double post this question? I was about to answer but then I realized I just answered this in another thread.
jpinard Feb 25, 2022 @ 8:31pm 
Originally posted by snuggleform:
Oh no, did you double post this question? I was about to answer but then I realized I just answered this in another thread.

I decided to create a new thread because I started to doubt I knew what I was thinking and wanted to include the Head of Faith and re-examine if I should maybe even go Lay.

I have to say, thank you all so much. I'm a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out how stuff works at times. I made choices earlier with my religion and messed it up, so now I'm doing a second religion before my last one even took. Didn't want to make that mistake again.
snuggleform Feb 25, 2022 @ 8:32pm 
Ah it's ok don't take me too seriously, I'm just a crusty gamer with no life. If I say something to make you mad it's not personal I'm just a loser with no life.

Just keep asking and you'll get there in no time.
Last edited by snuggleform; Feb 25, 2022 @ 8:35pm
titanopteryx Feb 26, 2022 @ 1:07am 
Originally posted by jpinard:
I'm reforming my religion and I know to go Theocratic instead of Lay. But I still don't quite understand the difference between Spiritual and Temporal Revocable. Which would I want to get the most money and troops? Or does one give more flexibility than the other?

When you have your realm priest act as a theocratic vassal and control all your temples, his martial stat affects the levies generated by all your temples and his stewardship affects all the temple's taxes. With temporal revocable you can select a realm priest with high learning and stewardship and possibly martial if you use lots of levies. With spiritual you'd have to get really lucky with getting a realm priest with high numbers in all 3 stats. I don't know if spiritual or temporal gives a higher or lower %, but the ability to put a character with high stewardship manually into the realm priest position will likely generate more taxes than the randomly generated spiritual one unless you get really lucky and he randomly has high stewardship.
jpinard Feb 26, 2022 @ 8:35pm 
Originally posted by snuggleform:
Ah it's ok don't take me too seriously, I'm just a crusty gamer with no life. If I say something to make you mad it's not personal I'm just a loser with no life.

Just keep asking and you'll get there in no time.

No you didn't make me mad at all! That was a reasonable post and I felt I owed a good explanation. :steamhappy:
jpinard Feb 26, 2022 @ 8:37pm 
Originally posted by titanopteryx:
Originally posted by jpinard:
I'm reforming my religion and I know to go Theocratic instead of Lay. But I still don't quite understand the difference between Spiritual and Temporal Revocable. Which would I want to get the most money and troops? Or does one give more flexibility than the other?

When you have your realm priest act as a theocratic vassal and control all your temples, his martial stat affects the levies generated by all your temples and his stewardship affects all the temple's taxes. With temporal revocable you can select a realm priest with high learning and stewardship and possibly martial if you use lots of levies. With spiritual you'd have to get really lucky with getting a realm priest with high numbers in all 3 stats. I don't know if spiritual or temporal gives a higher or lower %, but the ability to put a character with high stewardship manually into the realm priest position will likely generate more taxes than the randomly generated spiritual one unless you get really lucky and he randomly has high stewardship.

Wow, once again I'm showed just how little I know about this game. I had no idea the leads Stewardship and Martial affected anything at all. Thanks so much for informing me!
Yaldabaoth Feb 27, 2022 @ 12:33am 
With temporal revocable you can also just put in one your excess children and they will be excluded from normal inheritance.
glythe Feb 27, 2022 @ 12:59am 
Here's my opinion on religion :

1. You want to pick your priests
2. You want to be able to fire them and replace them on a whim
3. You do not want to be head of your church unless you are going to sell indulgences.
4. You do not want to own temples because by not owning them directly you still get money from them.
5. Your religion influences who you can marry so you might want to pick up an option to only be thought of as hostile instead of evil (if you are going for world conquest).


Originally posted by Triangle:
I don't like Lay Spiritualist because I think it includes churches into your domain limit and castles are worth just so much more. But you do lose out on making yourself the head of the church and, I believe, your churches earn you less money with Theocratic.

Generally speaking you don't want to personally own churches. Why? Because you can instead own like 20 provinces and have men at arms who are literally space marines. The game tells you that you don't want to own 3 duchies - but you want to own about 6 if possible.

With 3 jousting fields and 3 blacksmith duchy buildings you get a total of -36% men at arms maintenance cost. Combine with 100 dread for -50% MAA upkeep. Assuming you have no other bonuses (which are easily obtained) you are paying 15% upkeep for your men at arms. The buildings do other things but let's pretend they dont. That savings is better than owning a bunch of churches.

Having a better army means you can take land from everyone around you and turn them into your vassal.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Feb 25, 2022 @ 2:41pm
Posts: 15