Balan should be a Vanguard

[pascal.difolco]

In my first run I took Balin cause I was going to be a bad guy Tyrant/old Faith
Well he's Christian but it's a really good character, can have him make huge 80+ damage backstabs quite early
On my second Rightful/Christian game I took Balan, and that's a mistake...He's an OK Champion but you already have Kay, and then you don't have any Vanguard before Tristan, who is meh due to his 4AP Poison attack...
That makes early fights much harder, because you've got no mobility, only slow heavy Knights and Dindraine to get rid of pesky archers, but she's taking more damage than she gives!
Plus you don't even get any Vanguard loot before having Tristan, which is another issue

[madracc00n]

U can take both if u are struggling rly.Loosing 1 point is nothing.

[jorel91023]

I always take both. I agree. 1 Morality Point is nothing either way and there is no penalty (loyalty) for either Sir Balan or Sir Balin if you choose this option.

[Lovecraft]

If you choose the middle option you get both. However, imo, if I had to choose I pick Balin every time coz he's a really good Vanguard and since you have Kay already he's a no-brainer, if you have to pick.

[pascal.difolco]

Originally posted by madrac00n:

U can take both if u are struggling rly.Loosing 1 point is nothing.

Urrgh if only I knew !! Was thinking the middle half a$$ option option gave you none of them !!
Plus I wanted to play Rightful 2 shoes so didn't want the Morality loss.. Now I'm stuck with damn Tristan until I can get Tegyr which will be my main Vanguard...

[The Emperor Of Milfgaard]

I have been using balan the entire playthrough...together with Kay. They make a good team tbh. Playing roguelite mode currently lvl 15.

EDIT: if you can get: regain armor on kill. With your champions. Rage is pretty gud as is earth shaker. You can get their dmg so high, they just cleave through enemy ranks and restore their armor. Ssince lvl 14 missions I had issues getting through missions without losing vitality. Mainly because unseelie can just pull you and destroy you in one round. However, offering kay with preparedness or mordred to be pulled solved that problem. I think using a defender who has guard could also be very useful, especially since a sage can make it so you can have guard up for 2 rounds straight with extra armour cause even more AP.

[The Seventh Son]

Er what? Balan is easily one of the strongest characters in the game. He generally one shots enemies and has a way of soaking tons of damage. I have him equipped with a relic that has him teleport to the closest enemy whenever he kills an enemy. Skilling the damage soak out too make sit so every time you kill an enemy you reduce it's cd by one.

My Balan's turn generally looks like "Kill enemy, teleport, kill enemy, teleport, activate soak skill to gain hella armor." rinse repeat. Pretty much unkillable with devastating damage.

[pascal.difolco]

Originally posted by The Seventh Son:

Er what? Balan is easily one of the strongest characters in the game. He generally one shots enemies and has a way of soaking tons of damage. I have him equipped with a relic that has him teleport to the closest enemy whenever he kills an enemy. Skilling the damage soak out too make sit so every time you kill an enemy you reduce it's cd by one.

My Balan's turn generally looks like "Kill enemy, teleport, kill enemy, teleport, activate soak skill to gain hella armor." rinse repeat. Pretty much unkillable with devastating damage.

Yeah I didn't say he's bad, but was talking about early game, where you can't have a Vanguard before Tristan (which is a bad vanguard imo) if you choose Balan

[Cast Out Devil]

I don't think you need a vanguard in the early game.

Mordred, Kay, Dindraine, and Ector can easily clear the early game until you get Tristan or Tegyr. Swap in Balan wherever you want and you should roll. I took the middle option and never used Balin, he was my first casualty of making room for new heroes.

[Shadelay]

Originally posted by pascal.difolco:

Originally posted by The Seventh Son:

Er what? Balan is easily one of the strongest characters in the game. He generally one shots enemies and has a way of soaking tons of damage. I have him equipped with a relic that has him teleport to the closest enemy whenever he kills an enemy. Skilling the damage soak out too make sit so every time you kill an enemy you reduce it's cd by one.

My Balan's turn generally looks like "Kill enemy, teleport, kill enemy, teleport, activate soak skill to gain hella armor." rinse repeat. Pretty much unkillable with devastating damage.

Yeah I didn't say he's bad, but was talking about early game, where you can't have a Vanguard before Tristan (which is a bad vanguard imo) if you choose Balan

Tristan is a very good late game vanguard and not bad in any way. Just not as easy to play in early game as Balan

[Ovrlord Etna]

i wish i kept balan over kay, his defensive stance was really good, kay is like my weakest knight now. He was also max loyalty where kay is like at 10.

[thorin.hannahs]

I am actually struggling to get Vanguards to work in an exceptional manner. I have Balin, Tristan, Tegyr and Bedivere. I would prefer more Arcanists or Sages early on but for the brothers that just doesn't make sense.

[Robo]

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

I am actually struggling to get Vanguards to work in an exceptional manner. I have Balin, Tristan, Tegyr and Bedivere. I would prefer more Arcanists or Sages early on but for the brothers that just doesn't make sense.

Haha - I feel you, I struggle with Sages and not sure how to utilize them properly. I just kicked Leodergrance because he was doing nothing in missions - throw buffs and then watch because no mobility and damage. Now I got Guenevere and need to work on her loyalty a bit but at least she has teleport. I hope I figure out how to use her.

I agree on Arcanists as until Merlin (who again is difficult to keep please if you play Christian) you get only that dude which you just let sitting home to make 100g per mission.

As on the Vanguards - man they are beasts. I kicked Balin because he is identical with Tegyr (and Tegyr fits my Right/Christ play) and Tristan. Both easy to keep max loyal and they can destroy enemy backlines insanely fast (same with Balin but did not need third).

Just focusing on max mobility both gear wise and skill wise - max damage on basic, mobility and CD on Jump, Damage and mobility on hide, add in throwing dagger to the mix later.
They destroy minibosses in 1 turn and oneshot big ones (pict casters, chosen, etc - these bigger annoying targets). My biggest hit so far (lvl 9-10) was I think 2x87 opener hit from stealth. They just bring smile on my face when they do that to BIG dudes :)

In missions where you can deploy separately I put him on the other side from rest of my team with a grin on my face. They will run towards my melee and expose their backline to vanguard roaming and destroying it.

When I cannot deploy I just try to utilize jump and bypass the frontline and get into backline asap. Usually needs 1 well placed jump to get past melee and then its free reign in backline again.

Most important thing with them is to have armor which reduces their detection radius by 1 (until lvl 10 when they can learn it from hide) - this is a gamechanger.

[Robo]

Originally posted by Ovrlord Etna:

i wish i kept balan over kay, his defensive stance was really good, kay is like my weakest knight now. He was also max loyalty where kay is like at 10.

I liked Balan due to defensive stance a lot on my first playthrough (Game over due to White Knight mission and had to restart) for the same reasons.

On second playthrough I play a bit differently (much more focused on damage and trying to not tank the damage) and dont need to use it as much. Kay has Kick which I value much more now.

But I plan to replace them both with White Knight and Lancelot.

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by Robo:

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

I am actually struggling to get Vanguards to work in an exceptional manner. I have Balin, Tristan, Tegyr and Bedivere. I would prefer more Arcanists or Sages early on but for the brothers that just doesn't make sense.

Haha - I feel you, I struggle with Sages and not sure how to utilize them properly. I just kicked Leodergrance because he was doing nothing in missions - throw buffs and then watch because no mobility and damage. Now I got Guenevere and need to work on her loyalty a bit but at least she has teleport. I hope I figure out how to use her.

I agree on Arcanists as until Merlin (who again is difficult to keep please if you play Christian) you get only that dude which you just let sitting home to make 100g per mission.

As on the Vanguards - man they are beasts. I kicked Balin because he is identical with Tegyr (and Tegyr fits my Right/Christ play) and Tristan. Both easy to keep max loyal and they can destroy enemy backlines insanely fast (same with Balin but did not need third).

Just focusing on max mobility both gear wise and skill wise - max damage on basic, mobility and CD on Jump, Damage and mobility on hide, add in throwing dagger to the mix later.
They destroy minibosses in 1 turn and oneshot big ones (pict casters, chosen, etc - these bigger annoying targets). My biggest hit so far (lvl 9-10) was I think 2x87 opener hit from stealth. They just bring smile on my face when they do that to BIG dudes :)

In missions where you can deploy separately I put him on the other side from rest of my team with a grin on my face. They will run towards my melee and expose their backline to vanguard roaming and destroying it.

When I cannot deploy I just try to utilize jump and bypass the frontline and get into backline asap. Usually needs 1 well placed jump to get past melee and then its free reign in backline again.

Most important thing with them is to have armor which reduces their detection radius by 1 (until lvl 10 when they can learn it from hide) - this is a gamechanger.

I like having four separate classes in a mission. Always 1 Defender, 1 Champion, 1 Arcanist and then I alternate between Vanguard and Sage.

Yeah I think Gwen is the best Sage because she can assassinate after she buffs the team. I give her inspire CD and then chill and cold damage gear.

Balin is really coming through now since his hide detection is so small He can pull out their ass hairs before they notice him. Hide, position, backstab dagger throw, Hide, repeat.

I don't have tier three skills for most classes so I can't talk full end game builds.

[Robo]

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

I like having four separate classes in a mission. Always 1 Defender, 1 Champion, 1 Arcanist and then I alternate between Vanguard and Sage.

I don't have tier three skills for most classes so I can't talk full end game builds.

Same - Defender, Champ, Vanguard, Marksman is my team until now. Just got Merlin but he sits at -7 loyalty so have to work on that first.

As I said - I struggle to use Sages and I am probably missing something important as they feel superweak to me at this point.

My heroes are now as well 8-11 so no third tier as well.