Best 2 Handed Knight?

[GoMeZ-T.T ™©®]

Which Knight is the best?

White Knight?

Black Knight?

Lancelot?



I played Sir Keie always first, cause of the -1 point cost passive, for new abilities. I found that pretty strong.

But I like sir Lancelot too.

I am not sure, who is the best.

White Knight sounded steretype, just with buffs.

Black Knight jump, I don't know how important it is, when you have teleport per kill items?

[lordbio]

I found Sir Lancelot to be the best. A lot of people like Sir Kay as well.

[Eminem]

sir lancelot

duh

[Nelsons other eye]

Originally posted by Eminem:

sir lancelot

duh

LOL

Sir kay easily

[kbiz]

Forum favorite: Lancelot
Highest Damage: Kay
Best rampager: Kay
2nd place rampager: White Knight
Worst rampager: Lancelot
In the fewest A-Teams: Lanval
Best: the one you like best

Why Kay? Death Strike and Kick. Death Strike deals 170% dmg. Kick allows you to kill enemies for 1 AP - and with Killing Spree you can kill 2 or more enemies for 1 AP. Kay starts to shine when he gets full loyalty at level 5, Earth Shaker at level 5, and a teleport ring at level 5. And he only gets better from there.

[LastMinit]

Black Knight died in my game. His leap attack is an AoE so it's too tempting to just hurl him into a pack of mobs. And then its rip city.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by HintrGlactic:

Black Knight died in my game. His leap attack is an AoE so it's too tempting to just hurl him into a pack of mobs. And then its rip city.

HAHA! That's the thing with champions. You better know the outcome before you put them in harm's way.

[Orbital Drop Spicy Taco]

My first pick is the BK because of Leap Attack + Rage combo. Relic Act 4 item for Champion offers the teleport on kill, and Leap Attack + Rage combo helps to begin of kill chain by teleport-on-kill relic with the support from perks like Killing Spree, and Damage Focus. You can still give him teleport ring, but BK can have other ring because of the mobility from leap attack.

My next peak is WK or Kay. WK has Blessed Weapon, Kay has Death Strike. Now I experienced both of them, and I think I slightly prefer Blessed weapon because Death Strike has a little bit of weakness against armored tanks while Blessed weapon has an upgrade option to return 1 AP per kill. Rage bonus can overcome the weakness against armored opponents for DS, but I prefer to have an additional 1AP return on kill from BW (another one from Rage). Plus, I play in very hard difficulty, and Kay's negative trait (-1 loyalty if put him in the party when not full vitality) is the reason behind his slow growth of Kay in my run.

Lancelot has Lone Wolf, but its damage bonus is not comparable to Rage. So I don't pick him. But he is a great CC/Support champion with Blind and Ice spike and Inspire, and the mobility from Charge is great. So, depending on the style, Lancelot can be an excellent choice.

[Ven]

Ive played with all of them at this point and I think they all have their uses, especially considering many are mutually exclusive to each other. Personally I feel like Kay is amazing one you get tier 3 skills with his off tanking and outnumbers potential due to Preparation being a banger ability.

I also look at Black Knight as a kind of different flavored Lancelot since they both have gap closing skills that promote them going solo, however both kind of lack the survivability support that the base champs gets with defense stance, or kay with prep. Ofc lancey has some semi sage stuff that makes him more of a tier 3 unit where blkk is tier 2.

I actually like the white knight the most because of his access to bless and holy armor which are both great skills which combo great with tp on kill items and resetting his cooldowns with melee expert strikes. Basically lets you stack his personal bless, and reset holy armor cd so he is always defended in case something isnt dead.

Finally, the basic champion kit is really strong especially when looking at skills like rage and, earthshaker etc. It might lack some of the utility brought by other characters but the lower investment as you have them most of the game, and its usually easy to max one of their loyalties early so long as you keep the one associated with your morality, and that extra faithful ap is huge for early-mid game champs imo.

[Ven]

Originally posted by HintrGlactic:

Black Knight died in my game. His leap attack is an AoE so it's too tempting to just hurl him into a pack of mobs. And then its rip city.

Its great if you have an escape plan set up for him, i think he really suffers from not having easy access to temporary hp/armor for after he goes in for sure.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by Turbulent:

My first pick is the BK because of Leap Attack + Rage combo.

The problem with the Black Knight is all his attacks cost 4-5 AP. It's hard to maintain a rampage using 4 AP attacks - even with Killing Spree - even with the +1 AP per kill potion - even with teleport on kill. Even late game, it might take you a couple turns to clear a battlefield.

I prefer the teleport ring over the teleport on kill item. The starting location of a rampage can be important.

I prefer Earth Shaker over Leap Attack because I have 6 tiles to line up 3 kills instead of 3 tiles with Leap Attack. The key to a good rampage is start off with 3-4 kills from an AoE skill.

Death Strike becomes the best skill under any scenario when you start to deal a lot of base damage. You can one-shot full armored Balor with Death Strike on Very Hard. Well, you can even one-shot fully armored Balor with Kick on Very Hard.

When you can one-shot enemies with one strike, you still need enough AP to clear the entire battlefield. Most champions should be able to do a good job starting late game of the main campaign - with the proper equipment. When any champion can clear a battlefield, the question becomes moot. The relative value is only apparent when one champion can clear a battlefield and another champion can't. That's when we start to consider who's the best champion the earliest.

One of the undervalued advantages of Kay is he can rampage earlier than any other champion. He can start to take chunks out of battlefields starting around level 8. And he can get Killing Spree at party level 12.

Plus, Kay will always have more developed skills than any other champion at any level. Kay can have full loyalty dmg and AP bonuses at level 5.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by Ven:

Ive played with all of them at this point and I think they all have their uses, especially considering many are mutually exclusive to each other.

Fantastic point. Ultimately people are going to play their favorite knight.

Leap Attack, Inspire, Blessed Weapon are all fun.

[iacs]

Faerie Knight. Because of inbuilt teleport and 3 AP basic melee attack. Yes, I know, that formally he is arcanist, however he is close combat arcanist who has killing spree and there are a lot of arcanist items that buff damage to enemies closer than 4 tiles away.

[Orbital Drop Spicy Taco]

The problem with the Black Knight is all his attacks cost 4-5 AP. It's hard to maintain a rampage using 4 AP attacks - even with Killing Spree - even with the +1 AP per kill potion - even with teleport on kill. Even late game, it might take you a couple turns to clear a battlefield.

The limit of 4 AP cost per attack is the same for all other Champions. But BK's Leap Attack offers mobility so it saves the movement AP cost.

I prefer the teleport ring over the teleport on kill item. The starting location of a rampage can be important.

Their slots are different. Champion's Teleport-on-kill item is trophy slot (it can be weapon as well), and Teleport Ring is a ring slot. It is not something "prefer over" or "select one among two" because their slot is different. You can equip both relic at the same time: Teleport-on-kill and Teleport ring. But BK's Leap attack can offer a possibility to replace the Teleport ring to a better ring which can maximize the damage, because LA itself is the mobility. I think this can be the same with Lancelot's charge.

I prefer Earth Shaker over Leap Attack because I have 6 tiles to line up 3 kills instead of 3 tiles with Leap Attack. The key to a good rampage is start off with 3-4 kills from an AoE skill.

I think ES is good, but don't think ES is that good. The problem of ES is, it is not easy to hit more than 3 enemies, typically. 2 opponents at best during the first turn in general, usually 3 during the second turn or later. Rage + Teleport-on-kill + Cooltime-reduce-on-kill brings 2 ES per a turn. But even then, 4 opponents per a single ES is very very rare, and 3 kill is not usual. On the other hand, LA works as mobility perk, which reduces movement AP burden, and can hit multiple dudes. It is not usual to hit 3+ opponent using LA but at least it can offer mobility.

Death Strike becomes the best skill under any scenario when you start to deal a lot of base damage. You can one-shot full armored Balor with Death Strike on Very Hard. Well, you can even one-shot fully armored Balor with Kick on Very Hard.

I'm not denying Kay's DS can bring huge amount of damage, but so as BK and WK with their own perks and combos. Plus, DS requires some support, the armor should be broken to get the full benefit. It is not a huge drawback but still not a convenient for min-max, time to time.
I played 150h in VH never used a kick. IMO Kay's Kick should be in 1 tier as it would've been shine better during early game. From mid game in VH difficulty, it is not easy to get a benefit from Kick because it is simply better to kill and reduce enemy number using alpha strike meta. Because the damage accumulation is severe in VH difficulty, it is better to minimize the turn time for future missions.

When you can one-shot enemies with one strike, you still need enough AP to clear the entire battlefield. Most champions should be able to do a good job starting late game of the main campaign - with the proper equipment. When any champion can clear a battlefield, the question becomes moot. The relative value is only apparent when one champion can clear a battlefield and another champion can't. That's when we start to consider who's the best champion the earliest.

I don't know about Kay's early game. His trait makes him always stay in hospital to heal vitality, otherwise I will lose the Loyalty of him. VH difficulty offers more firepower and HP to opponent, it is very rare to clear the game without vitality damage to tanker and champion in VH. I think Balan is better for "early game champion" because of his defensive perk.
If you claim you can clear VH difficulty without single vitality damage to tanker and champion for every single mission at the same level of the party members and mission level, I won't believe that.

One of the undervalued advantages of Kay is he can rampage earlier than any other champion. He can start to take chunks out of battlefields starting around level 8. And he can get Killing Spree at party level 12.

Again, I don't know about early game. VH difficulty champions are squishy during early game, yet Kay's trait makes him difficult to use. But we can use Kay from really early while we need to wait until we get BK and WK, so...

Plus, Kay will always have more developed skills than any other champion at any level. Kay can have full loyalty dmg and AP bonuses at level 5.

Not sure about that, because IMO the most important perks for Champions in VH difficulty are passive perks: Damage Focus and Melee Expertise, and Survivality/HP/Vitality perks.

I think Kay needs some buff. He feels like designed for early level but his trait limits him in VH difficulty, and 3 tier active skills are meh. At lower difficulty, I think someone can manage Kay like you mentioned, but in VH difficulty, I'm not sure from my 150h experience. If he gets a good mobility attack or other good active skills in tier 3 instead of whirlwind, than I would believe Kay would be the top in VH difficulty.

Maybe, if there is a new whirlwind only for Kay, something like a moving Whirlwind like Diablo 2's Barbarian, slowly moving forward while swinging the sword, and damage wide area... then I think that would be cool.

[kbiz]

Also, you don't want to consider the best champion in a vacuum. You should consider the party that best augments your champion. There are great synergies available.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by Turbulent:

The limit of 4 AP cost per attack is the same for all other Champions. But BK's Leap Attack offers mobility so it saves the movement AP cost.

You make good points. I'll play devil's advocate.

With Kay, you can kill an enemy with Kick for 1 AP. That's the difference right there. And it's not difficult to kill enemies with Kick. In fact it works great with Killing Spree because a lot of times a weaker enemy is within two squares of a stronger enemy. So you Kick the weaker enemy, Strike and kill the stronger enemy, and then Kick refreshes after Strike. You can do it all day long.

If that sounds interesting, you should look for items that give you +2 move AP on kill. Kay can work a battlefield effectively with Kick and Killing Spree.