Sir Mordred Needs a Taunt

[jeff]

Would be nice if the tank had some type of taunt for aggro. Makes it hard to bring another melee champ when they are just going to get immediately surrounded and the tank can't draw aggro.

[Dark]

There are Taunt scrolls.. and Champions have their own defensive skills (sooner or later)!

After looking over it, Defenders aren't that common of a class to begin with. Most of them don't show up until act 3. And the only one you naturally find is Sir Pelleas in Act one, who is Rightful morality.

I know it feels like a Taunting Defender seems like the expected outcome, but it seems that is more of the exception than the rule.

[jeff]

Originally posted by Dark:

There are Taunt scrolls.. and Champions have their own defensive skills (sooner or later)!

After looking over it, Defenders aren't that common of a class to begin with. Most of them don't show up until act 3. And the only one you naturally find is Sir Pelleas in Act one, who is Rightful morality.

I know it feels like a Taunting Defender seems like the expected outcome, but it seems that is more of the exception than the rule.

Kinda useless to have a tank that can't draw aggro. Never played a game where they couldn't. Makes Sir Kay useless as he cannot get into melee range or he is instantly surrounded and hit 5 times while the tank is ignored.

[Edelas]

There are also at least two christian defenders in game, Galahad and Percivale, both have taunt. I'm playing on hard and I cannot say i felt a dire need in drawing agro in the first chapters, at the same time having Kay my always-to-pick-DD. Just give sir Kay some decent armor and add some from merchant upgrades, and use control spells. It's going to be much more comfortable.

[Dark]

mhmm. Sir Kay is one of the Champions who doesn't get his defensive until later. All others get a tier 1 skill that gives them ridiculous temp armor for one turn. Kay gets one that does that plus auto counter attacks enemies attacking him at tier 3.

Mordred's character sheet says he is a Tank, but that is a lie. He is a Warlock. Using his Hex, and Thunder to peel off enemies Armor at range, sniping Archers, and positioning in the front to draw aggro.

The game has done some missteps when it comes to framing and managing players expectations. So your feelings are valid and shared by many.


I've done missions without a defender, using a Champion(s) as front line. You have to adjust your tactics accordingly knowing that while you need them in melee, you can't let them get swarmed either. Try a mission with that outlook and see what you come up with.

[kbiz]

If you really want to get banged on during combat, which is a tanky thing, and occasionally a useful thing, then you can engage multiple enemies with Mordred - mainly with Shield Bash. The adjacent enemies become Mordred magnets. Mordred is tanking. The enemies will approach Mordred if he's the only one around.

What Mordred is really good at is bashing someone, standing over them, and killing them.

Mordred is also good at Stun - which can be used effectively late game - coupled with Death Hex. Chain Lightning coupled with a fire/ice spell will take out the archers - especially if they're burning.

Lots of good points being made. I think you'll find that Mordred is Mordred. He's impossible-to-kill Mordred. He's Jack-of-all-trades Mordred. Mordred is the cleaner.

[Njall]

Originally posted by jeff:

Originally posted by Dark:

There are Taunt scrolls.. and Champions have their own defensive skills (sooner or later)!

After looking over it, Defenders aren't that common of a class to begin with. Most of them don't show up until act 3. And the only one you naturally find is Sir Pelleas in Act one, who is Rightful morality.

I know it feels like a Taunting Defender seems like the expected outcome, but it seems that is more of the exception than the rule.

Kinda useless to have a tank that can't draw aggro. Never played a game where they couldn't. Makes Sir Kay useless as he cannot get into melee range or he is instantly surrounded and hit 5 times while the tank is ignored.

Keep in mind that opponents will rarely, if ever, disengage.
Engage two or three opponents with Mordred, and, after they're locked in melee, use Kay to move around them (if you can, give him some bonus movement from equipment), backstab (death strike backstabs tend to kill the opponent pretty damn quickly) and retreat (one square should be enough, and moving behind them doesn't draw an OA) while Mordred tanks them.

I had no problem keeping him alive, even at low level.
Also, I found that waiting for the enemy melee units to close the distance, maybe slowing some of them (usually either the most damaging ones or the farthest ones) with traps/spells helps quite a bit, as you can usually kill at least a couple per turn before the rest of them closes in.
This at low level. At level 15+, champions are pretty survivable on their own and can tank their fair share of attacks.

[Zeel Ara]

Taunt is a gimmick, not a necessity, since enemies don't disengage. And champions are better at soaking up damage than defenders. What Mordred *does* need is either effective armour recovery or good access to temporary HP and armour. As it stands he is a significantly worse tank than any champion with defensive stance.

[Lachanche]

While I agree with everything that is being said here about mordred, I just want to clarify that enemies DO in fact disengage if you play on very hard.

I never had enemies disengage from me on roguelite, but on very hard the AI seems different.

Enemy archers in melee range will take the attack of opportunity to disengage, maneuver behind you and backstab you.

Bosses will also turn around and walk away from mordred if they can reach a squishier character, abilities like slow or chill or shock or stun become very important to manage aggro

[madracc00n]

Personally i would like mordred to be more like a custom hero,where u have some options at the start or something.so u can atleast choose him to be champion mb?!

[Luvz]

Spec him for durability and long range shield charge. That's effectively a taunt and disables one of them, while keeping Mordred as the center of attention. Keep your other melee a little further back in position to do max damage the next turn.

[Don Montega]

Why taunt when enemies run on the rule of proximity?
Mordred charge, mordred hex, overwatch or cleave XD

[Wondervice]

Learn positioning.
Taunt is helpful, sure, but what Mordred gets instead is way more useful if you use it properly. With shield charge, stun and shock you should never really be in a position where enemies have a choice to attack anyone but Mordred. Even on very hard where enemies will disengage and go for the squishies if they can, you should absolutely be able to prevent them from ignoring your tank.

[jeff]

Originally posted by Wondervice:

Learn positioning.
Taunt is helpful, sure, but what Mordred gets instead is way more useful if you use it properly. With shield charge, stun and shock you should never really be in a position where enemies have a choice to attack anyone but Mordred. Even on very hard where enemies will disengage and go for the squishies if they can, you should absolutely be able to prevent them from ignoring your tank.

This is not true at all. When you are way outnumbered there is no avoiding it. Tanks need taunts. RPG 101.

[jeff]

Originally posted by Wondervice:

Learn positioning.
Taunt is helpful, sure, but what Mordred gets instead is way more useful if you use it properly. With shield charge, stun and shock you should never really be in a position where enemies have a choice to attack anyone but Mordred. Even on very hard where enemies will disengage and go for the squishies if they can, you should absolutely be able to prevent them from ignoring your tank.

Feel free to provide more details as how you can prevent enemies from engaging a melee champion. Mordred does not have a single ability to help with this. With only two consumable slots, you really can't afford to not take pots.

When you get to levels 10+ and have to fight 4 vs 20, there is simply no way to get a melee champ where he can do significant DPS and not get focused and surrounded by multiple enemies.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by jeff:

Originally posted by Wondervice:

Learn positioning.
Taunt is helpful, sure, but what Mordred gets instead is way more useful if you use it properly. With shield charge, stun and shock you should never really be in a position where enemies have a choice to attack anyone but Mordred. Even on very hard where enemies will disengage and go for the squishies if they can, you should absolutely be able to prevent them from ignoring your tank.

This is not true at all. When you are way outnumbered there is no avoiding it. Tanks need taunts. RPG 101.

Mordred a hard-charging tanky warlock. You can bring along a pure tank if necessary.

If you're outnumbered, use Mordred and your mages/sages for crowd control. Most of the time, you can control the speed of engagement.

Positioning works. Enemies will not run past Mordred if it will envoke an attack of opportunity - most of the time.

I played Kay too. Total badass champion. Death Strike and Kick are very useful.

I prevented enemies from engaging Kay (because you're right - they do like champions) by cutting large swaths into the enemy ranks and leaving no one around him to both approach and attack. Kay just needs a little jumpstart and most enemies can't stand against him. If Kay doesn't kill that last enemy within range, then my other characters will perform clean up. If an enemy does start the turn with Kay - I can choose to Kick them away - for example, with a Fogbringer - or just start the round with them - especially if I can line up 3 enemies for Earth Shaker.

Let's say there are a lot of enemies. Not all of them can get to you round one. Cast Slow on 3. Cast Ice Thorns on 4. Cast Fire Drake on 3. Cast Ice Wall. Freeze, knock down, stun, or deceive 1-3 enemies per turn. Let Kay and Mordred go to work. No tanks with taunts needed.

If you truly are about to get swarmed, get away. Teleport, Shield Bash, and run. Then cast crowd control spells. Buy yourself that crucial turn.