Best use for Marksmen?

[Schnorble Schnacker]

Almost to complete my first playthrough and I haven't found a suitable use for Marksmen yet. I opt for Arcanists, champions and vanguards. Know how to use Sages and Defenders but tend not to (just preference and playstyle i guess) but with the marksmen I dont see how they can give my team an advantage. Anybody got good builds/teams using them or are they just the Magikarps of this game?

[Yodums]

They're pretty bad, but can still be functional. Best Marksman imo is Damas because he currently deals the most single target damage out of Marksmen (everyone deals bad aoe) That doesn't say much though, since as I said, class in general is bad in its current state.

If you are doing a Merlin playthrough, Damas provides the most utility out of all the Marksmen to Merlin because he's the only one in the class that can proactively help set up Fire Drakes in addition to kiting. But you will be Christian so need to be comfortable with event farming to get Merlin to be Faithful loyalty.

You can check out some of my gameplay footage on Very Hard difficulty and determine for yourself whether it's worth experimenting the opportunity cost of just running a better class. I purposely held back on cheese (no AP gear and I play Vanguard passively so that enemies are alive for my Marksman to shoot) so that the fights would last enough turns for me to see Marksman performance play out.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTid3H3vhVatwiZN-m1HW_P2hFxKrA-6O

I'm currently playing double Marksman team variation on Very Hard difficulty as well. It's alright. Plays similar to XCOM Long War being one weapon tier below the aliens. The tools for success are there, you just have to know the ins-and-outs of this game and work for it. I wouldn't recommend it though if you want just want to steamroll (just slap AP essence on Vanguard or Champion for that)

[kbiz]

They make a cool swooshing sound when they dash. Favorite part about them.

It's like golf - one marksman in your party will add a +5 handicap.

In some games the archer dominates, in some games it doesn't. This is the latter.

[Yodums]

Originally posted by kbiz:

It's like golf - one marksman in your party will add a +5 handicap.

And playing with two in the same party is exponential increase like +25 handicap. Heaven forbid what 3 or 4 looks like. Though I guess you could just cheese it and say "look 3 Marksmen carried by AP essence Vanguard"

[kbiz]

HAHA!

With four, it's game over. It's game over, man! It's game over! What are we gonna do now?? We got four marksmen and all these battles - these magical horrors - these t-h-i-n-g-s - it's all ahead of us! And we're just four marksmen! We're in some pretty deep sh!t now! Where's Balin? Where's Kay? Where's Merlin? Anyone?

Sorry monsters, we started our campfire last night with our arrows and we don't have any more right now. Can't we just talk this out?

[ZyF]

Don't get this marksman hate, especially early on. I've always had one in my party (just got to chapter 3 on hard). I only use their overwatch, and once you get dash and eventually the 4th upgrade to your normal shot, you get at least 3 overwatches every other turn. Combined with the abundance of items that boost overwatch dmg, my archer was dealing 20+ dmg twice a turn while everyone else was still doing only 1-2 attacks at often less than 15dmg in chapter one.

They do fall off a bit as the game goes and I'm thinking about switching the marksman out for a arcanist now but they were my second strongest hero after the vanguard well into chapter 2. (Us

[Zeel Ara]

They make you feel cool for beating missions when playing with only 3 heroes.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by ZyF:

Don't get this marksman hate, especially early on.

They're not terrible, they just handicap your party.

You're right, early on, you don't have a choice. You have Ector and the eight thousand marksmen. And that's fine. Dindraine can dash about and set things on fire - for the Lord, of course. Her overwatch abilities are good too. That's all good.

But towards late game, marksmen don't have the crowd control or the DPS to be as effective. So they are considered to be a handicap. It's not hate, it's reality. You can still take one in your party for roleplaying purposes. But I have yet to see the roleplaying story where the four hapless Marksmen stomped Balor.

[jeff]

Just don't. Their damage does not scale appropriately and as you get to higher levels they become completely useless.

[ExoduS]

Originally posted by Yodums:

If you are doing a Merlin playthrough...need to be comfortable with event farming to get Merlin to be Faithful loyalty.

Can you tell me, or point me to a guide somewhere on how to do this? I'm on my first playthrough and went Christian Tyrant path for Sir Balin, Sir Ector and to unlock the black knight.
Merlin and Guinevere hate my guts. I'd really like to use them but the negative loyalty they have at the moment is a real downer.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by ExoduS:

Can you tell me, or point me to a guide somewhere on how to do this?

Go Old Faith. All your favorite knights will have full loyalty - certainly Merlin, Morgana, and Isolde. Give them a quest or two if necessary - or a ring. Or a title.

If you want to get a neutral character to full loyality by mid-game, that takes work.

[ExoduS]

Originally posted by kbiz:

Originally posted by ExoduS:

Can you tell me, or point me to a guide somewhere on how to do this?

Go Old Faith. All your favorite knights will have full loyalty -

First half of the game my default team has been: Mordred, Balin, Kay and Ector.
Balin and Ector are both Christian, so I was picking Christian options to make them happy.
Balin I've got 20+ loyalty on, Ector & Kay are both at the +20% damage level. So I'd like to keep them happy if possible.
Just really sucks having Merlin and Guinevere at -7 loyalty. Is there a way to farm loyalty on them without losing loyalty on Ector & Balin?

[kbiz]

Originally posted by ExoduS:

Just really sucks having Merlin and Guinevere at -7 loyalty.

Gotta love trade-offs. Can't always get what you want.

Play Old Faith - one time. Get the gang back together - Mordred, Kay, Merlin, and Morgana love each other. Give Isolde a shot too.

You can give someone 5-7 loyalty from quests, max. That should help in the analysis.

[Yodums]

Originally posted by ExoduS:

Originally posted by Yodums:

If you are doing a Merlin playthrough...need to be comfortable with event farming to get Merlin to be Faithful loyalty.

Can you tell me, or point me to a guide somewhere on how to do this? I'm on my first playthrough and went Christian Tyrant path for Sir Balin, Sir Ector and to unlock the black knight.
Merlin and Guinevere hate my guts. I'd really like to use them but the negative loyalty they have at the moment is a real downer.

It takes a while, there's limited number of events but if you funnel pretty hard you can compensate for negative loyalty. My Lady Isolde, Boudicea and Morgawse are Faithful for the extra AP as Christian Tyrant as an example. Yep all 3 of them.

The main category of events are as follows:
1. Defender / Champion
2. Vanguard / Marksman
3. Sage / Arcanist
4. Male
5. Female (there is also one comes with Minstrel Camelot upgrade for additional +2 to all females)
6. Generic for anyone but character must be within highest level of round table if don't want risk of fail
7. Specific events based on trait, and that character is pre-selected (if you have multiple characters with eligible trait, game picks randomly and you can't choose)
8. Specific events for a character (you can't choose)
9. Old Faith
10. Christian

Unfortunately, if you have multiple preferred characters within the same class groupings (for example Merlin and Guinivere are Arcanist and Sage respectively but still compete for same event category) listed above, you're gonna have to pick your favorite, because there aren't enough events to share the same class grouping.

I'm not sure Guinivere is possible to get to Faithful though because she is double anti-morality for Christian Tyrant, but Good is definitely accomplishable before the story ends with smart planning. Excellent might be possible late in the postgame, but that's obviously a long while.

#6 is one of the most crucial to spam and it is vital to ensure you meet the proper conditions to get that +2 loyalty every time you try to farm it. It adds up when spammed.

If you try to split, you could half ass it and get them 0 loyalty to remove the damage penalty, but you won't get the benefits of high loyalty if you had picked favorites.

It also helps if BEFORE you pop the Christian Tyrant loyalty decree that you unequip titles to ensure that loyalty is negative to squeeze that extra +1 bonus for negativity. Then you can equip title again after. You also want to be good at managing gold so that you can spam the decree off cooldown. It is pricy at 4500, but doable every 5 turns to rack up that money if you know how to play the game well to keep money rolling.

if you're asking after already having started the campaign, you've probably already done some events, so it might be too late to fix your loyalty.

[Gnk*]

Best use for marksmen? Use them to get free seats at the round table!