Sir Mordred late game.

[J/H]

I believe there are already complain on this matter.Sir Mordred in high level is pretty lackluster compared to everyone with the loyalty bonus even if you give him all skillpoint you have. Do you think there is a hope that next patch he will get buff in late game a bit?

[Grandork]

Mordred is crap. Simple as that. You would think the main character of the game would have some OP stuff, but no, he's just crap.

[Roan Shiran]

Originally posted by Grandork:

Mordred is crap. Simple as that. You would think the main character of the game would have some OP stuff, but no, he's just crap.

Yep.

[Wondervice]

Mordred is absolutely great, he is just not what you would expect from a protagonist build. He is a hybrid tank/crowd control guy, that can lock down multiple enemies every single turn while also being pretty much unkillable.
With the right relics he can also dish out some pretty serious damage (which is somewhat reliant on the excalibur trait that's sadly bugged at the moment.)

Now of course if you are playing on lower difficulties and can get away with just rushing in your champions and hacking away, then he will seem lacklustre, but on 'very difficult' he will probably be one of your cornerstones of the team.

[Roan Shiran]

Originally posted by Wondervice:

Mordred is absolutely great, he is just not what you would expect from a protagonist build. He is a hybrid tank/crowd control guy, that can lock down multiple enemies every single turn while also being pretty much unkillable.
With the right relics he can also dish out some pretty serious damage (which is somewhat reliant on the excalibur trait that's sadly bugged at the moment.)

Now of course if you are playing on lower difficulties and can get away with just rushing in your champions and hacking away, then he will seem lacklustre, but on 'very difficult' he will probably be one of your cornerstones of the team.

On 'very difficult' almost any other tank would be better. Tank without a taunt is just bad tank.

[Wondervice]

Originally posted by Roan Shiran:

On 'very difficult' almost any other tank would be better. Tank without a taunt is just bad tank.

Morderd trades the ability to taunt for the ability to actually shut down enemies at range and to destroy armour. And no, you do not need taunt to tank, as long as you have good positioning, you will be able to tank without taunt quite easily.

[Shroud]

Originally posted by Wondervice:

Originally posted by Roan Shiran:

On 'very difficult' almost any other tank would be better. Tank without a taunt is just bad tank.

Morderd trades the ability to taunt for the ability to actually shut down enemies at range and to destroy armour. And no, you do not need taunt to tank, as long as you have good positioning, you will be able to tank without taunt quite easily.

This.

Mordred tanks exactly fine and has been my tank all the way to act 4.

He dishes out good damage, charges around the battlefield which resets if you target almost dead enemies, his lightning bolt and curse both shred a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of armor as well as stuns.

He is great, you just need to use him aggressively.
And with armor and hp on kill gear he doesnt die if you have some points in block.

[Roan Shiran]

Originally posted by Wondervice:

Originally posted by Roan Shiran:

On 'very difficult' almost any other tank would be better. Tank without a taunt is just bad tank.

Morderd trades the ability to taunt for the ability to actually shut down enemies at range and to destroy armour. And no, you do not need taunt to tank, as long as you have good positioning, you will be able to tank without taunt quite easily.

Mhm. For CC Morder only has super expensive thunderbolt, which other tanks dont have. On the other hand Red Knight has 1 more CC AND taunt. Well, at least Morder has useless in act 4 stigma and for some reason two aoe.
Moreover good positioning alone wont protect you in act 4. For example boars frequently just ignore Morder standing in their face and go after softer targets. If your AI doesnt do that, then I dont know what to tell you.

[Wondervice]

Originally posted by Roan Shiran:

Mhm. For CC Morder only has super expensive thunderbolt, which other tanks dont have. On the other hand Red Knight has 1 more CC AND taunt. Well, at least Morder has useless in act 4 stigma and for some reason two aoe.
Moreover good positioning alone wont protect you in act 4. For example boars frequently just ignore Morder standing in their face and go after softer targets. If your AI doesnt do that, then I dont know what to tell you.

If we are talking about act4, then red knight has 0 CC since everything is immune to knockdown. If not, then Mordred has 2, since he has knockdown on his shield charge. Red knight also doesn't have taunt, he has mock, which will target two targets at most at a very hefty AP cost.

Also, if your squishies are in range of boars at the end of the turn then you are doing it wrong. They should either be dead, stunned, frozen or out of range. So far I have found that in Act4, even my tanks are barely getting hit, and boars are just not a problem at all.

[Roan Shiran]

Originally posted by Wondervice:

If we are talking about act4, then red knight has 0 CC since everything is immune to knockdown. If not, then Mordred has 2, since he has knockdown on his shield charge. Red knight also doesn't have taunt, he has mock, which will target two targets at most at a very hefty AP cost.

Also, if your squishies are in range of boars at the end of the turn then you are doing it wrong. They should either be dead, stunned, frozen or out of range. So far I have found that in Act4, even my tanks are barely getting hit, and boars are just not a problem at all.

Hefty? 4 AP for practically CC two units is hefty? Sure, thunderbolt for 6 ap (to which almost half of enemies are almost immune) is so much better.

Well, if you have every enemy units "dead, stunned, frozen or out of range" then having a tank is just plain stupidity. Better have another damage dealer.

[Lovecraft]

Well in my game he's absolute beast. Rocking almost 150% physical resistance, 50% block. I gave him the dodge vial so he's also dodging. He has 24 armor with last 6 being unbreakable. I don't have to have him hit for much as his charge and rune thing both cost 1 AP. Then I also have thunderbolt and Chain Lightning for cc and aoe. I let the other heroes clear the battlefield while he takes as much hits as possible because nothing can damage him :)

[Lovecraft]

Oh and I gave him reflect damage as well, so he just stands while everything dies if they hit him as well.

[brynragan]

Mordred is perfectly functional, and if his measure is taken in a vacuum he's fine. Unfortunately other knights exist, and have better baselines and more commitment to their "jobs" than Mordred does. He's serviceable, and you can make him strong, but that same effort could make a good unit extremely good, so without Mordred's protag status I would argue that it is a poor allocation of resources.

At core I see three issues with him. The most glaring is the lack of loyalty bonus to give him additional damage and AP- and as a heavy armor class, AP is already at a premium. Being down by at least 1 AP from where other units are hurts him.

This theoretically gets addressed by his story acquired trait, which has issues of its own: It is highly conditional- you can get a 20% bonus, but only if you have at 4 relics equipped. It doesn't address the AP concern. And it's glitched- importantly, its been known for a while and not patched yet, which speaks to either the will to remove it or the complexity of doing so.

His worst issue is that his kit really doesn't gel well internally. As mentioned, he's a tank/arcanist hybrid. Hybrids aren't inherently bad- hello Lancelot-but the good ones cherry pick skills to support their roles. Mordred's setup seems purpose created to fight itself. He has some debuffs, but no effectiveness increase to help make them stick- give him Master of Lightning. He has a tank baseline, but no ability to draw aggro, save by proximity- why can't he get Taunt? His kit pulls in two directions, and is inferior in its performance of either job. Party builder games tend to value specialization, and this one does too. That leaves Mordred, a generalist, feeling undercooked when compared to his knights.

The tldr: Mordred isn't bad in a vacuum. You can gear and kit him out to perform just fine. But he does present as underwhelming when compared to specialist in either role.

[Njall]

Originally posted by Ceckard Dain:

Well in my game he's absolute beast. Rocking almost 150% physical resistance, 50% block. I gave him the dodge vial so he's also dodging. He has 24 armor with last 6 being unbreakable. I don't have to have him hit for much as his charge and rune thing both cost 1 AP. Then I also have thunderbolt and Chain Lightning for cc and aoe. I let the other heroes clear the battlefield while he takes as much hits as possible because nothing can damage him :)

Champions can be untouchable as well, come late game, if well built and positioned (especially if supported by an actual tank with, say, Guard).
And by "untouchable" I mean that I routinely see their armour hit 60/70 with Defensive Stance+Damage Focus(Readiness) and an (actual) tank with Guard (the White Knight's is a bit higher, sometimes his armour is in the high 80s).
That's before Melee Expertise kicks in, providing another +2 point of unbreakable armor per enemy engaded, as long as they're outnumbered.
Even on very hard, there isn't a lot of stuff which can actually damage you through all that armor+ the THP defensive stance provides unless you let them backstab you (which you shouldn't).
However, unlike Mordred, a well built and equipped champion can easily dispatch 3+ mobs/turn with minimal support.
The best ones can pretty much clear the battlefield in a couple of turns.

Mordred isn't by any means "terrible". But neither he's "amazing".

"Amazing", to me, is providing cover to your entire first line through Ice Wall, increasing their AP by 2 while removing all negative effects on them, teleporting around the map to freeze or kill mages and archers, and occasionally helping freeze 5+ mobs through Ice Wall when working in tandem with a champion. (Guinevere).
"Amazing" is jumping behind the enemy lines, dishing 150+ (unbuffed, since as soon as their sigils proc, my vanguards hit for around 250 damage when backstabbing) single target damage 3+ times per turn, taking out a good chunk of the enemy's front line or rear and disengaging, while healing any HP damage you might have taken in the process before hiding, ready to unleash an OA with surprise bonuses if anything comes close enough (Boudicea).
"Amazing" is hitting 5+ targets in a single attack, dealing 100+ damage per hit, and gaining free attacks whenever something is reasonable enough to die when hit on the face (or, even better, on the back) for a few hundred's worth of damage. It's killing half a dozen mobs while hitting for 400+ damage/strike by the end of the second turn (White Knight and Kay, in my game).
"Useful", instead, is providing my whole party (and my frontline) 12 points of armor to minimize the impact of the enemy's melee attacks before using a teleport item to move behind their lines and taunt them so that the rest of the party can backstab them to their heart's content (pretty much each and every tank with taunt+guard, which notably isn't Mordred).

Mordred is a solid middle-of-the-pack character, on all difficulties. He's better at low levels, because there aren't many good synergies in his skill tree, so the (best members of the ) rest of the cast sorta leave him behind, both in terms of usefulness and damage (and, for some of them, even durability), when they hit level 15+.
Now, does this mean that you won't be able to finish the game with Mordred, or even pull out some nice stunts from time to time if you equip him correctly and focus on him? No, of course not. He's still a very sturdy character with a couple of nice utilities.
But he's by no means among the best characters of the cast, late game, and, him being the main character and all, people are understandably underwhelmed.

[WereCatf]

It's entirely possible I am doing something wrong, but...I feel Mordred is constantly starved for AP. Being starved for AP, the two lightning-attacks with high AP-costs feel quite pointless. There's no synergy, whatsoever, in his talents. Sure, he can take quite a lot of punishment, but that's all he can do, and he can't even hold aggro, and he gets more and more underwhelming towards the end.

By the time I killed the final fragment of Arthur, Ser Balin had gone the complete opposite direction, becoming an absolute fricking monster -- any time he kills something, his damage-output goes up, and with the relic that teleports him to the next enemy whenever he kills something means he can clear half the battlefield in a single turn.

[kbiz]

You could create a party out of any four random classes and if they had the proper skills, level, and equipment then you would do just fine late game.

For me, Mordred was a utility character. Stun (works on most enemies - especially spellcasters - after casting Death Hex), Chain Lightning (to keep the line behind the front line from getting to the party on the first turn or maybe heavily damaging archers), and Shield Bash (to get anywhere in the battle in one turn or immobilize a non-immune enemy) are all useful at different times. He is practically indestructible with HP and armor regen. He can become quite powerful if you have dmg/kill weapons or if you synergize damage with your fire/ice mages.

I don't think optimization matters late game. I can't think of a party that dominates all other parties.