So lets talk about how NPC's Made the game worse.

[Supreme Admiral Brenton]

Surely an unpopular decision to those of you who think-
BETHESDA NPC'S OF ALL THINGS.
Would make a broken game better. Or better yet was one of the "biggest reasons it was disliked"

Having played a free weekend on Xbox and getting reasonably hitched i bought it to continue playing back before NPCs were added. Hundreds of hours later (and a grand total of 3 battle royal matches) i was done for a time as anyone else would be with a bethesda game and moved on to my next itch.

And then about a year ago i felt the urge to play it again. I had a lot of fun the last time. The "story" wasn't actually that bad compared to fallouts usual dribble. I knew from my time playing on xbox the game was now reasonably stable and bug free (as a fallout game goes. *cough cough fallout 3 cough*) And most importantly i knew there was so much more of the world to explore i hadn't seen especially with the NPC updates and such.

So once again i bought it on a sale (yes i bought fallout 76 twice you read that correctly) for not only me but one of my best friends as well and was eager to show him all the exciting places and quirks and fancy fun weapons...

And thats where the problems started.
Starting of course with the rather rude Mr handy glad you're finally "getting out of the vault after so long" (kinda hurts when you've been playing longer than that dialogue existed but ok) joined the world with my friend and.... Couldnt share the main quest any longer?

A quick google later showed how the addition of NPC's and their specific to player "quests" lead to the removal of shared main story quests meaning me and my friend couldnt actually progress the same story together but instead had to "do our own thing together" Not the biggest of issues but... A disappointment non the less... Mark one against NPCs.

So down we go to the overseers camp fighting the bots and bugs along the way annnnd someones built a bar in the middle of the road...?
Ok.
In we go and- oh no wait player specific interiors welp so much for grabbing a drink together inside the same building or even standing next to eachother as we watch the new "NPC story" unfold... Mark two.

"OK!" i say and we go out.
bla bla bla responders bla bla bla airfield. Largely unchanged thankfully. Though as mentioned before unable to actually share the same quest...
Theeeeen we get to the ending where we find NPC number 3 (number 2 being a rude scav but i wont bore you with that) Whoooo just seems to be happily living his days... deep inside a scorched infested tower... Surrounded by bodies of dead responders..... Remind me why people wanted to add NPCs to a world designed to be empty again?

MOVING ON! Next spot was make a cure. A quest that had thankfully been refined from previous wolf hunting days.... Woulda been nice if we coulda shared it instead of progressing solo in player specific interiors.

And then we get to the fire breathers.
Do quest.
Talk to child woman thing thats also a responder... after how many attempts?

And then this is it... My favourite part of the previous game.
A long hard fought battle through the confines of big bend tunnel...
We take the time to make ourselves some fun new guns and don our snazzy fire breathers outer clothing and approach....
Stopping at the first corpse to check the notes before pressing on to the tunnel entrance to see...... A merchant hub?
Completely manned and filled with NPCs too.....
Ok.... So we go inside. Ready for a fight and....
Its a highway....
A fully lit. Fully paved highway....

I mean... At least the company running the joint had the courtesy to leave the dead bodies of the apparently "long dead" fire breathers strewn about the place for all the weird vault people that keep on coming through... i guess?

So through we go. Hardly bothered at all save for a moleman or two and emerge on the otherside! Ready to confront the new uninhabitaed scorched filled- aaannnndddd its another merchant hub....

And now that my recounting of the epic saga is complete i will ask again....
Why did people think NPCs would better fallout 76?
Im sorry but if you thought a lack of BETHESDA NPCS to use as bucket stands was one of the most pressing issues the game faced im sorry but.... how? And how is this better?

How is re writing major plot areas into highways a good change?
How is rose an interesting incounter now when you've been seeing actual living characters all along your path already?

Surely it wouldnt of been difficult to just have "NPC's" appear AFTER the main quest that... you know... is such a major threat you need inoculation and that requires nukes to stop.
A "post and present 76" map setting that allows you to play the game in its INTENDED state.... Annnnd then hop over to the rude scav filled wastes and all future content upon completion.

Because otherwise you're just experiencing a story thats already happened that you didnt get to experience because you were late to the leaving party by about 2 in game years i guess.

Im not saying NPCs dont have a place...
Im saying they could've. And should've. Been added better than a light dusting of bots throughout places they really shouldnt be.

[Lord Rambo]

You will own nothing. You will rent all the atom shop items you buy for your CAMP. You will live in the shelter and eat ze RadRoaches. You will be happy, or else.

[LatetotheParty]

I only played FO76 with the NPC's added and actually didn't buy the game when I read it was purely a world with just other players and no NPCs.

Now I'm thinking I'd have liked to play the game without the NPCs as originally indented.

My understanding is that the game was received so poorly, there was an expectation that this was Fallout 5 (ish) but as an online gaming experience. So, the work to add the NPCs was probably a rushed knee-jerk reaction.

[s.turner3030]

One of the big problems is the crappy as hell ai for most of these people, go to the raiders base at the crashed space ship, quite often there are bears just wandering around inside it, neither side is hostile to each other, even if the bears attack you, when you are friendly to the raiders the heavily armed raiders all around the place do nothing. Yet everywhere else raiders and bears fight to the death.

Go to where the settlers hang out, quite often when you fast travel there, you get hostile creatures or people come through the place, again the guards do jack about these supposedly hostile creatures or people charging through their home, and in the case of blood eagles or fanatics, shooting away and not hitting anybody, but still the guards of the place do squat, apart from just walk past them.

[Supreme Admiral Brenton]

Originally posted by LatetotheParty:

I only played FO76 with the NPC's added and actually didn't buy the game when I read it was purely a world with just other players and no NPCs.

Now I'm thinking I'd have liked to play the game without the NPCs as originally indented.

My understanding is that the game was received so poorly, there was an expectation that this was Fallout 5 (ish) but as an online gaming experience. So, the work to add the NPCs was probably a rushed knee-jerk reaction.

It was its own experience.
I can remember actual wonder upon meeting a "survivor"
Wandering an empty world as i pieced together maybe not the most amazing of mysteries but there we SO many it kept you delving deeper.

One of the moments that has stuck with me most through all my time in gaming and not just 76 was taking a shortcut to somehwere.
I happened upon a grave with a body in it laying on a pillow with rat poison next to it.

Say what you will about 76...
But that little detail i just happened across has stuck with me more than anything i experienced in fallout 4.
And that is what games should be about... To quote larian games when they were making baldurs gate. "Its the little details we put into the dark corners that only 1% of players might see, but then go off and tell the other 99% about that we strive for"

Compare that to bethesdas "the games we are making are so big we have to make sure everybody experiences it at some point"

Im sorry to the people who like the NPCs in fallout 76...
But i would take that one little hole with that one little grave over every NPC iv met to date.

[Vazzi]

So lets talk about how NPC's Made the game worse.

If they never implemented NPCs you couldnt complain about anything since the game would have been abandoned three or four years ago. so regardless of all the issues in quest design and coop play, that have nothing to do with NPCs being in the game, the NPCs didnt make the game worse - they saved it.

[Wack-A-Mole MLRS]

Originally posted by Lord Rambo:

You will own nothing. You will rent all the atom shop items you buy for your CAMP. You will live in the shelter and eat ze RadRoaches. You will be happy, or else.

No Roaches in a Shelter. Cook and keep in your stash for a green and red rainy day.

[Illtempered]

Agreed. Game was better the first year and all the additions made since then have been garbage. As usual I disagree with the gaming masses.

[decree]

Some NPC are better vs most players.

[Uvirith]

I played the game at Release. It sucked. Only Robots and Log-Entries? Are you kidding me? NPCs saved the game.

[Dezktop]

righ.........t
if anything why not ask how is the ai still this bad in SF

[Mooman]

The NPCs show that the world is evolving. Look at the sequence of events (may contain spoilers).

Everyone is dead because they couldn't get along, scorched plague wiped out anyone left after all the infighting.

Dwellers emerge and solve the Scorched problem. Word gets out that Appalachia is safe so people return (for a stupid gold reason... but I guess it mirrors real world gold rushes).

The Brotherhood for some reason send an expedition party to Appalachia (so much for lore...). They are depleted and fractured from the journey so enlist the Dwellers help.

Then the 'Responders' return... For some stupid reason we help the Union in The Pitt as they keep sending refugees into Appalachia (this actually seems like some NIMBY (not in my backyard) BS).

Next we head to Atlantic City for some stupid reason to fight in death games and help mobsters...

So you see the world evolved. Wastelanders made sense, everything after it was/is stupid. If it stayed a stagnate, dead world there'd be no content beyond SBQ killing. How long till everyone was bored?

[Supreme Admiral Brenton]

Originally posted by Vazzi:

So lets talk about how NPC's Made the game worse.

If they never implemented NPCs you couldnt complain about anything since the game would have been abandoned three or four years ago. so regardless of all the issues in quest design and coop play, that have nothing to do with NPCs being in the game, the NPCs didnt make the game worse - they saved it.

Did i say adding NPCs period was bad?
Or did i say sprinkling them about in places they really shouldnt be was bad?

Towards the end you see me talk about how if anything-
There should have been two areas. The first. Empty. Everyone died or fled the scorched.
And then the second "hey we fixed it calling all survivors come here" area. They did it with areas like nuclear winter. they are on the way to do it with stuff like atlantic city.

Atlantic city would have been fine with mods.
But did i really need some weird trade caravan set up in the midgames major story location?

[Supreme Admiral Brenton]

Originally posted by Y2K:

Without them (much like at launch) the world would feel empty, have no context and would not be engaging or very interactive. You'd be playing a text game because it would all just be reading notes and computer screens, again much like at launch.

Who said it was designed to be empty ? why would it be designed to be empty ?

Very unique take you have, ill give you that.

Gee its almost like it was meant to be a player interaction focused game....
And not fallout 4.5 where you speak to x person do y thing.

Originally posted by Y2K:

If they didn’t add anything in the first 2-3 years this game wouldn’t exist anymore. I think based on a business stand point that’s a fact.

At what point... Was it at all mentioned.... that nothing should have been added?

I said NPCs BEFORE MAIN QUEST COMPLETION. (At very least)
There are MANY MANY ideas. Some of which have actually been added. that add to the game without adding NPCs.

THINK.
Just for a moment if you will that you are a new player.
Comeing to play fallout 76... (Like i was on pc moving from xbox)
First thing you hear is the Mr handy bad mouthing you for "taking so long" Good start...

And then you go off on the story DESIGNED FOR AN EMPTY DEAD WORLD.
And there are people wandering around...

By that point you're not a trailblazer.
You're someone who was late to the party and missed one hell of an adventure and im sorry but that leaves a rather empty feeling in your mouth because its not like your average "oh i missed X event in a live service game"
It feels like you missed the entire early game through ether no fault of your own or your moralistic opinions on fallout 76.

NPCs could still exist.
You could still help them expand.
Or heck. Atlantic city could have even been going there to let people know.
But instead you're following an old epic tale and old battlefields now replaced with.... Bars and luxury hotels.

[Supreme Admiral Brenton]

Originally posted by Mooman:

The NPCs show that the world is evolving. Look at the sequence of events (may contain spoilers).

Everyone is dead because they couldn't get along, scorched plague wiped out anyone left after all the infighting.

Dwellers emerge and solve the Scorched problem. Word gets out that Appalachia is safe so people return (for a stupid gold reason... but I guess it mirrors real world gold rushes).

The Brotherhood for some reason send an expedition party to Appalachia (so much for lore...). They are depleted and fractured from the journey so enlist the Dwellers help.

Then the 'Responders' return... For some stupid reason we help the Union in The Pitt as they keep sending refugees into Appalachia (this actually seems like some NIMBY (not in my backyard) BS).

Next we head to Atlantic City for some stupid reason to fight in death games and help mobsters...

So you see the world evolved. Wastelanders made sense, everything after it was/is stupid. If it stayed a stagnate, dead world there'd be no content beyond SBQ killing. How long till everyone was bored?

The world evolves yes.
The world should evolve yes.
But the should the world evolve without new or returning players before they have had their chance to experience the original intention of the game.

Should new players really hear the overseer talking about how they are with the new settles who have arrived.... Before even "following the overseer"?

[Wack-A-Mole MLRS]

We killed 1,000,000 or more Scorched Beasts(in one month) so you could come hear and play and not have 2 or 4 of them smashing your camp or you to the ground every 10 minutes. So you came late to the party and only the ugly girls or guys were left and you are complaining. Drink some Nukashine and set your alarm next time.