Ghoul downsides need to justify being able to do over 100,000 dmg

[lockwoodx]

What's going to be the point of playing if you don't convert to a ghoul?
The biggest threat to ghoul players will be a rad scrubber.

[Urban Legend]

Assuming any such thing is possible when it hits release. Bethesda may not have a great track record of getting every problem solved between PTR and full release, but SOME things do change. Let's wait to see what actually goes live before we start talking about the sky falling.

In the meantime, since they don't read the steam forums I'd make sure to share your concerns with them through the methods they do pay attention to.

[Kuroneko]

I'd never play as Ghoul cause i don't want to play as an Ugly Character & i don't see the point of me playing as one since i don't PvP.

[Mooman]

The real issue in this game is consumable spam and Ghouls will be the poster children for that (Toxic Goo).

As they are now the glow system is largely useless unless you spam so much toxic goo (easiest option). For the majority of players they'll hardly get the maximum benefit out of the class.

Consumable spam becoming the norm is the real issue and symptom of the future design of this game. No game should think that spamming lots and lots of items is healthy.

Case in point, the raid. According to the devs of this game I may have over 6000 hours in the game but am not an 'end game' player because I refuse to spam consumables. I refuse to cheese the EN06 encounter with an auto-axe so that leaves heavy weapons.

Firing from the hip doesn't provide anywhere near enough DPS to solo this boss (I get solo isn't the intended mechanic), the only way to get enough DPS is via VATS crits, and the only way you'll get that with heavy weapons is via canned coffee or other consumable spam.

It's why BGS made coffee machines easier to get instead of addressing the AP/VATS/Crits issue directly. They expect every player to play that way because some YouTube muppet said so.

Getting back to the Ghoul. This mentality of consumable spam is ingrained in the design. If the glow system wasn't tied to health/radiation but just a separate glow bar that operated like crits outside of VATS it would offer an alternative to play style.

Instead it's just going to be the same old same old where those who can afford the consumables will be the ones to get the most out of it... I don't think I'll make a Ghoul, still umming and arhing depending on how the PTS goes.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Mooman:

Firing from the hip doesn't provide anywhere near enough DPS to solo this boss (I get solo isn't the intended mechanic), the only way to get enough DPS is via VATS crits, and the only way you'll get that with heavy weapons is via canned coffee or other consumable spam.

Yeah you can, without vats it'll be a 2 step fight where you need to take shelter once

Richochet / Reflective + bullet shield + a crippling 2* heavy weapon will make short work of the shield

Gatling plasma with the new mods and decent *'s makes short work of his health

With vats you can absolutely one stage solo kill him with ranged weapons, its just not as efficient as the autoaxe cheese

[Mooman]

Originally posted by Phantom:

Originally posted by Mooman:

Firing from the hip doesn't provide anywhere near enough DPS to solo this boss (I get solo isn't the intended mechanic), the only way to get enough DPS is via VATS crits, and the only way you'll get that with heavy weapons is via canned coffee or other consumable spam.

Yeah you can, without vats it'll be a 2 step fight where you need to take shelter once

Richochet / Reflective + bullet shield + a crippling 2* heavy weapon will make short work of the shield

Gatling plasma with the new mods and decent *'s makes short work of his health

With vats you can absolutely one stage solo kill him with ranged weapons, its just not as efficient as the autoaxe cheese

Nope, not me I can't with an Aristocrats, Explosive, AP reduced Gatling Plasma. It also has a stinging core and calibrated receiver. So it's not a slouch of a weapon. Full heavy weapon perks, tenderizer, bloody mess, stabilised. Adrenal reaction mutation.

I can fire all day and it barely scratches the bot. After 1 door it'll only drop about 15%.

The shield is 'easy', particularly with the crippling cheese (I've used a crippling dragon). It's the health I have a problem with.

Remember I also play entirely solo, no team buffs at all. The only time I've taken it down was cheating the heat up for 2 extra phases.

It uses too many resources to try do it 'properly'. I'm not arguing against min-max as I believe that should be the way to solo any team bosses, what I'm arguing is without some form of cheese, not just min-max, it's near impossible.

[AtmaDarkwolf]

Originally posted by Kuroneko:

I'd never play as Ghoul cause i don't want to play as an Ugly Character & i don't see the point of me playing as one since i don't PvP.

Problem is, as we are seeing now, they are now going to 'Balance' the game around power armor (and boost that) and ghouls. I mean sure fair game cuz humans/mutants/bloodied users/etc have ruled the game so far, but Bethesda being who Bethesda is, I fully expect the "Balance"is going to be the type we have seen with this game, time and time again, with it boiling down to only a few specific builds being able to manage the 'new content'

(Sure in time the content will be watered down and/or removed and reintegrated into the game for everyone,which is fine, but it does lock out many players who choose not to be a ghoul.)

In the end it will likely(short term anyways) promote new users to come try the game, but many old ones will just exit stage left for a few years.

[Urban Legend]

Originally posted by Mooman:

Nope, not me I can't with an Aristocrats, Explosive, AP reduced Gatling Plasma. It also has a stinging core and calibrated receiver. So it's not a slouch of a weapon. Full heavy weapon perks, tenderizer, bloody mess, stabilised. Adrenal reaction mutation.

I can fire all day and it barely scratches the bot. After 1 door it'll only drop about 15%.

The shield is 'easy', particularly with the crippling cheese (I've used a crippling dragon). It's the health I have a problem with.

Remember I also play entirely solo, no team buffs at all. The only time I've taken it down was cheating the heat up for 2 extra phases.

It uses too many resources to try do it 'properly'. I'm not arguing against min-max as I believe that should be the way to solo any team bosses, what I'm arguing is without some form of cheese, not just min-max, it's near impossible.

Truly? I've soloed him without using an auto axe with just a gatling plasma and the perks he mentioned. If you're having problems with health during the fight, try a set of troubleshooter's armor.

[AnonymousGamer79]

Originally posted by Urban Legend:

Assuming any such thing is possible when it hits release. Bethesda may not have a great track record of getting every problem solved between PTR and full release, but SOME things do change. Let's wait to see what actually goes live before we start talking about the sky falling.

Is it wrong that this made me laugh uncontrollably?

[wkett]

I don't know how I feel if in a few month's the majority of the players are ghouls. How does this fit with the fallout vault survivor lore other than admitting defeat to the plague. Ghouls are too high maintenance to appeal to the majority of fallout 76 players. I feel this game is turning into "Chase the meta 76".

[lockwoodx]

Originally posted by Mooman:

Consumable spam becoming the norm is the real issue and symptom of the future design of this game. No game should think that spamming lots and lots of items is healthy.

Everyone constantly pinging the server what could go wrong?

[Balegrim]

Originally posted by Urban Legend:

Assuming any such thing is possible when it hits release. Bethesda may not have a great track record of getting every problem solved between PTR and full release, but SOME things do change. Let's wait to see what actually goes live before we start talking about the sky falling.

In the meantime, since they don't read the steam forums I'd make sure to share your concerns with them through the methods they do pay attention to.

Plz tell me what they are so I can b*tch about how bugged the mysterious stranger perk is.

[DocBravo]

Having to travel to that one place just to put on/take off your "disguise" is a waste of time and loading screens.

[lockwoodx]

The craziest thing is All of the OP Perks they gave to ghouls describe super mutants better in the lore. Super melee strength, stagger resistance, radiation immunity. That's a super mutant not a ghoul. Ghouls would have been better off as team medics with radiation aoe healing, aoe team rez, aoe team poison cure etc and if they overuse their powers they lose control of their character for 10 seconds like the blue devil fear effect. It was that simple Bethesda.

But no... let's sh*t all over the lore for a crummy Tv show Tie-in.
At least they got the CAPITALISM part of American satire correct.

[Mooman]

Originally posted by DocBravo:

Having to travel to that one place just to put on/take off your "disguise" is a waste of time and loading screens.

That's easy, do all your questing before level 50 (or becoming a ghoul) and you won't need the disguise at all.

The only issue afterwards without a disguise is all BoS members become hostile, even the unkillable ones like Felton Reed in a random encounter...

[Wack-A-Mole MLRS]

Originally posted by lockwoodx:

What's going to be the point of playing if you don't convert to a ghoul?Ghoul downsides need to justify being able to do over 100,000 dmg
The biggest threat to ghoul players will be a rad scrubber.

Was hoping for a little more than that.
Hoping my Ghoul Glowing Camp Dog has 200,000. Then lets see someone nuke my camp..