Tank Killer perk, is it worth it?

[Krumbleskin]

Have been using 3 star TK and it doesn't seem to add much when farming westtek as a full health commando using Aristocrats fixer. Swapped it out to a 1 star TK and added points to commando perks and seems better, not using VATS just ADS. Have heavy gun perks and power armour for bigger events.

[Mooman]

If you're hitting head shots it's not that good.

One of the recent updates lowered the DR/ER of mobs significantly but increased their HP to compensate. Head shot multiplier was also reduced on many mobs but it is still enough boost to nullify many of those new resistance values.

The way the damage equation works min[0.99, ((Dm*0.15)/Dr)^0.365] where Dm is the damage going in and Dr is the resistance, around 6.5 times Dm to Dr you'll achieve maximum natural armour penetration where your output is 99% of your pipboy listed 'paper' damage.

With a head shot multiplier of 1.5 on most mobs getting that Dm to 6.5 times Dr is much easier boosting Dm than reducing Dr, especially with the reduced values mobs have now (though a combination of the two factors is best).

It'll still work to help get that target ratio but at reduced effect, similar to Anti Armor vs. a damage boost legendary effect on weapons.

[Enker-Zan]

Originally posted by Mooman:

If you're hitting head shots it's not that good.

One of the recent updates lowered the DR/ER of mobs significantly but increased their HP to compensate. Head shot multiplier was also reduced on many mobs but it is still enough boost to nullify many of those new resistance values.

The way the damage equation works min[0.99, ((Dm*0.15)/Dr)^0.365] where Dm is the damage going in and Dr is the resistance, around 6.5 times Dm to Dr you'll achieve maximum natural armour penetration where your output is 99% of your pipboy listed 'paper' damage.

With a head shot multiplier of 1.5 on most mobs getting that Dm to 6.5 times Dr is much easier boosting Dm than reducing Dr, especially with the reduced values mobs have now (though a combination of the two factors is best).

It'll still work to help get that target ratio but at reduced effect, similar to Anti Armor vs. a damage boost legendary effect on weapons.

Doesn't AA apply to robots regardless of where you hit them?

[Phantom]

Min/Max wise yes

but AA suffers from both diminishing returns and lower enemy resists

Once upon a time AA guns would out perform B guns with the same perk loadouts by 0.5%-1%

Now its not even close with B guns demolishing the DPS of AA guns

[Mooman]

Originally posted by Enker-Zan:

Originally posted by Mooman:

Doesn't AA apply to robots regardless of where you hit them?

AA as in anti armour will work on any limb, but the weak spot is still the best location as it's 1.5 times the damage.

For robots it's all over the place. Protectrons it's the head, Sentry Bots the Fusion core, Gutsys the middle eye, Assaultrons the head I think.

But really for all robots just blow off all their arms, job done as they self destruct.

[Nyota Mwuaji]

Originally posted by Mooman:

Originally posted by Enker-Zan:

Doesn't AA apply to robots regardless of where you hit them?

AA as in anti armour will work on any limb, but the weak spot is still the best location as it's 1.5 times the damage.

For robots it's all over the place. Protectrons it's the head, Sentry Bots the Fusion core, Gutsys the middle eye, Assaultrons the head I think.

But really for all robots just blow off all their arms, job done as they self destruct.

the head of a protectron is the weak spot? I thought it was around the back area or the center of the robot, shooting the head seems to do less damage, but if i head the middle point, near where the legs attach to the torso, its a 1 shot kill, depending on the level. sometimes it takes two

[BumFight]

absolutely. Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C49C1BZZrHU
in my understanding, if your weapon does low damage and is fast firing, you will benefit from aa more than for example from junkies or aristocrats. in case of commando weapons id just stack anti armor, especially in raids.

[Vic Evicerator]

Originally posted by Mooman:

For robots it's all over the place. Protectrons it's the head, Sentry Bots the Fusion core, Gutsys the middle eye, Assaultrons the head I think.

It's the thrusters on Gutsys that give the orange higher damage numbers.

Assaultrons may show the orange 'weak spot' numbers but they never seem to have a traditional weak spot. Their legs are super-easy to cripple, though, and grounding them makes them a joke to kill.

[Krumbleskin]

Originally posted by Mooman:

If you're hitting head shots it's not that good.

One of the recent updates lowered the DR/ER of mobs significantly but increased their HP to compensate. Head shot multiplier was also reduced on many mobs but it is still enough boost to nullify many of those new resistance values.

The way the damage equation works min[0.99, ((Dm*0.15)/Dr)^0.365] where Dm is the damage going in and Dr is the resistance, around 6.5 times Dm to Dr you'll achieve maximum natural armour penetration where your output is 99% of your pipboy listed 'paper' damage.

With a head shot multiplier of 1.5 on most mobs getting that Dm to 6.5 times Dr is much easier boosting Dm than reducing Dr, especially with the reduced values mobs have now (though a combination of the two factors is best).

It'll still work to help get that target ratio but at reduced effect, similar to Anti Armor vs. a damage boost legendary effect on weapons.

Thanks, it seems better to maybe just put one star into it and adjust other perks. Wish I could put more into STR but so much is tied up in weight reduction, maybe the changes coming might help weight. Even with armour WR still need it in STR.

[Krumbleskin]

Originally posted by BumFight:

absolutely. Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C49C1BZZrHU
in my understanding, if your weapon does low damage and is fast firing, you will benefit from aa more than for example from junkies or aristocrats. in case of commando weapons id just stack anti armor, especially in raids.

My fixer is FFR and was AA but it seemed weak in WestTek, it is also perforating so too much AA I guess. Aristocrats and FFR is better but only my bloody builds drop them quick since the "balancing". This is really apparent when detected and no stealth boost.

[BumFight]

there is a threshold. you take the amount of armor after aa, perforating etc and multiply it by 6. Shoot your weapon and if your weapon does the same damage as the amount after the multiplication you dont need more aa. Bloodied boosts the damage very high so it can hit these amounts of damage easier. everything else should be less than aa except for maybe critical headshots

[lockwoodx]

I get 50% AA from a legendary weapon mod. 50% AA from incisor (the melee version of tank killer), and 10% AA from a weapon mod. 1-shots anything small but It still takes a good 2-3 whacks against big stuff.

[BumFight]

Originally posted by lockwoodx:

I get 50% AA from a legendary weapon mod. 50% AA from incisor (the melee version of tank killer), and 10% AA from a weapon mod. 1-shots anything small but It still takes a good 2-3 whacks against big stuff.

there just been a video 2 hours ago. Melee is bugged. it only does the ballistic portion of damage so anything you add ontop of it just doesnt register (plasma, fire, electrified etc)

[lockwoodx]

Originally posted by BumFight:

Originally posted by lockwoodx:

I get 50% AA from a legendary weapon mod. 50% AA from incisor (the melee version of tank killer), and 10% AA from a weapon mod. 1-shots anything small but It still takes a good 2-3 whacks against big stuff.

there just been a video 2 hours ago. Melee is bugged. it only does the ballistic portion of damage so anything you add ontop of it just doesnt register (plasma, fire, electrified etc)

Melee is properly applying bleed, fire, and frost on my end.

[BumFight]

Originally posted by lockwoodx:

Originally posted by BumFight:

there just been a video 2 hours ago. Melee is bugged. it only does the ballistic portion of damage so anything you add ontop of it just doesnt register (plasma, fire, electrified etc)

Melee is properly applying bleed, fire, and frost on my end.

yes dot but not the damage of poison fire plasma etc, only ballistic damage

[Mooman]

Super Mutants went from around 300 DR to only around 60 now. They also went from head shot multiplier of x2 to x1.3 (for some reason their multiplier is less than everything else and I think this has been indicted as a bug as they should have x1.5).

You needed around 5 times more damage output to get maximum natural armour reduction in the olden days.

At 60ish you need 390 damage to bypass armour. Headshots that drops to 300. That pipboy damage is 'easy' to achieve with perks and buffs.

You can drop that damage requirement slightly with AA effects but since they only have 60 DR it doesn't do much. Tank killer is 36% reduction or 36.4 DR for 236.6 damage to nullify, 182 on headshots.

What it really comes down to is how many buffs you run to boost your pipboy damage as more damage naturally bypasses armour. If you can naturally achieve the higher values then AA is useless.