trading is broken

[Customer ******* Stole My Money!]

i really like this game

infact, i could enjoy this game without ever trading
but never trading would be disapointing.


Why do i say trading is broken tho?

because trade only occurs one direction, players can only BUY from you.
you can cannot request items to buy from others.

there are bottlenecks which are suppose to direct/guide the course of something.
this is an example of being clogged up or broken.
because the cycle of trade simply does not happen.


Compoundly, with all the variety of collectrons there is no reason for people to buy my wares.
why did i craft all this booze?
why did i horde all this chems?
why did i horde the junk?
why did i horde food?

everytime i make a stockpile worth anything, bethesda just provides "collectrons" to ruin the flow.
what is the point of selling anything other than a legendary gun?

what is the point of not grinding your own weapons if this is the trend???
why would i even take time to fast travel to somebodies camp anymore?


so the solution would be
1. Completely remove collectrons.
2. trade goes both ways.

you dont need collectrons if there is a PROPER trade system.
bethesda is making these weird solutions just to compensate for lacking proper trade.

maybe fix "Duping" or whatever the issue is, instead of making "collectrons"
did bethesda just give up fixing duping and this is their attempt to "work around" it ???

[Customer ******* Stole My Money!]

it's as though you've never commented on a steam forum before or had read the code of conduct.

ill just wait for the mod to tidy up the mess you made that im not going to read.

[Customer ******* Stole My Money!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Arseface:

it isnt a free market if you're telling me to only sell for 1c.

No, it IS a free market, since no one is forcing you to sell for 1cap... You on the other hand are complaining, at length..

that's where i stopped reading cuz i noticed you werent ever going to make a point and had no intention to talk about the subject. ^_^

but this is enough attention for you.

[Ruin]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ;4149455258730870203:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

No, it IS a free market, since no one is forcing you to sell for 1cap... You on the other hand are complaining, at length..

that's where i stopped reading cuz i noticed you werent ever going to make a point and had no intention to talka out the subject. ^_^

but this is enough attention for you.

Ummm... What?

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

No, it IS a free market, since no one is forcing you to sell for 1cap...

I opened by making a point... *facepalm* The problem is, I was merely making a point that you didn't want to hear...

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

You on the other hand are complaining, at length, about people selling for 1cap, because you don't want to sell for that price...

You also cut out half the paragraph - the cut off section is in italics - no doubt because it didn't suit your position...

No more, no less...

[Customer ******* Stole My Money!]

well thank you for the intelligent conversation.
im going to bed.

enjoy the rest of your day and better luck next time fishin for narco fuel.

[Zalzany]

I got people to buy ammo recently granted it was when the buy three things from a player or sell them daily was going people bought .38 for 1 cap each lol. Althugh one guy did buy a couple hundred .45 I think...

But I searched for quite a bit on my demolition toon to find 40mm nades, and rockets and no one sells them just infurating, I hoped to every player vender in a session a couple times, and ended up finding 200 gnades droped near train station for free lol

[Brian9824]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zalzany:

I got people to buy ammo recently granted it was when the buy three things from a player or sell them daily was going people bought .38 for 1 cap each lol. Althugh one guy did buy a couple hundred .45 I think...

But I searched for quite a bit on my demolition toon to find 40mm nades, and rockets and no one sells them just infurating, I hoped to every player vender in a session a couple times, and ended up finding 200 gnades droped near train station for free lol

Yeah most won't sell them because of the weight and limited market for them. It's not worth my limited stash space in my vendor for something worth so little.

[Ruin]

Opprinnelig skrevet av brian9824:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zalzany:

I got people to buy ammo recently granted it was when the buy three things from a player or sell them daily was going people bought .38 for 1 cap each lol. Althugh one guy did buy a couple hundred .45 I think...

But I searched for quite a bit on my demolition toon to find 40mm nades, and rockets and no one sells them just infurating, I hoped to every player vender in a session a couple times, and ended up finding 200 gnades droped near train station for free lol

Yeah most won't sell them because of the weight and limited market for them. It's not worth my limited stash space in my vendor for something worth so little.

Yeah, exactly this... The space needed to store them, and the fact very few people use explosive weapons, for anything more than ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles anyway, means that they just don't sell...

Even alot of the energy rounds don't sell very well, though I do find Flamer fuel to be one of the better sellers...

[Customer ******* Stole My Money!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Zalzany:

I got people to buy ammo recently granted it was when the buy three things from a player or sell them daily was going people bought .38 for 1 cap each lol. Althugh one guy did buy a couple hundred .45 I think...

But I searched for quite a bit on my demolition toon to find 40mm nades, and rockets and no one sells them just infurating, I hoped to every player vender in a session a couple times, and ended up finding 200 gnades droped near train station for free lol

what do you think of my suggestion on improving the trade system

a method to set what you would like to buy
so that other players can buy what they want from you, and then sell what YOU want if they have it?

[Customer ******* Stole My Money!]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

Opprinnelig skrevet av brian9824:

Yeah most won't sell them because of the weight and limited market for them. It's not worth my limited stash space in my vendor for something worth so little.

Yeah, exactly this... The space needed to store them, and the fact very few people use explosive weapons, for anything more than ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles anyway, means that they just don't sell...

Even alot of the energy rounds don't sell very well, though I do find Flamer fuel to be one of the better sellers...

problem : specific ammo types dont sell because of XYZ, another problem is player stash cap.

so, any idea's on how to improve that?

[Ruin]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Arseface:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

"And sell what YOU want, if they have it?"

You mean like the player vendor system that's already in place? /facepalm

i dont think we're playing the same game or you are deliberately trying to break communication.

you know very well trade only goes one way.
you cannot create buy orders in your vendors.
and you know that's not what i wrote in the first place.

why would you slap yourself in the face after breaking communication anyway?


but yes "like" the system we have now
except you have the extra function of placing buy orders... "a method to set what you would like to buy"

you can *only* set what you would like to SELL, Ruin.

You're right, you can't create "buy orders", but I don't actually see them as useful, frankly...

The main reason being is that all you would see is a slew of "buy orders" for people's ultimate weapons, or armour pieces, for virtually zero caps - in other words, unrealistic delusions that would be utterly meaningless, and add nothing to the game...

Fallout 76 will never be Eve, the only game I have seen where such an intricate trade system has ever been successful - not surprising in a game which is described as "Microsoft Excel, but with pictures"... Not to mention that everything in Eve is fixed, there are no random modifiers etc, so placing orders for specific items, is easy...

How would you place a "buy order" for a 3 star legendary, when all those modifiers are entirely randomised? The probability of getting exactly what you want is so remote, that the feature is meaningless, and simply not worth the effort of adding... I'd much rather Bethesda invest their time in further content, than something like "buy orders", especially when you're the only person in the past 2 years I've seen ask for it on these forums...

For everything else, there's a clear indication of what people are selling at their camps, so if you're after ammo, look for ammo being sold, and just buy what's on offer - or, better still, make it yourself, as it's the most efficient way to acquire it...

Again, you've referred to the trade system as being "broken", when it's demonstrably not...

Again, and again you demonstrate that the problem is not that the current trade system does not work, it's merely that it does not work the way you want it to work, with "buy orders" being another glaring example... It's an unnecessary feature, that would add little to no value to the game...

Ammo is in ample supply - just not at values you demand it should be sold - so there's nothing stopping you buying it, if that's what you want - just jump to those camps with ammo on sale...

Otherwise, posting "buy orders" for specific weapons is little more than asking for pipe-dreams...

I'll bring you back to this comment...

Opprinnelig skrevet av Arseface:

what do you think of my suggestion on improving the trade system

a method to set what you would like to buy
so that other players can buy what they want from you, and then sell what YOU want if they have it?

This is exactly how the system currently works... Of course, it is dependant on players selling what they want to sell in the first place...

Even with some sort of "buy order" system, it would still be dependant on players wanting to sell those items, for the prices being offered... And that's where it falls down, as people are going post little more than delusions...

Opprinnelig skrevet av Arseface:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Arseface:

problem : specific ammo types dont sell because of XYZ, another problem is player stash cap.

so, any idea's on how to improve that?

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

No, they don't sell because people don't use them... Not seriously... Explosive weapons are simply not as good as most automatics, heavy ballistic, or even a good melee weapon, and has been the same since FO3...

Even the Fatman doesn't offer anywhere near the same damage output, given the expense of the nukes themselves, and their weight... Sure, they're fun to blow ♥♥♥♥ up, but they take too long to aim effectively, significantly reducing their damage output, and you're also just as likely to kill yourself, or be forced to switch to another weapon when an enemy gets too close - meaning, you might as well have just opened with that weapon anyway...

This is not about stash size being the problem, but players actually carrying the requisite ammo to use them... Storage capacity is not the underlying problem with people selling these rounds, it's merely a byproduct of people simply not wanting them - hence, there's no demand for them...

The problem is that they are not an efficient option for damage output, not when carrying the rounds, nor when crafting them, and not because they require alot of storage in your stash, but merely because there are better options and, most of all, builds...

Because they are rarely used, they simply don't sell well enough to warrant the stash space...

Was there some implication by you that we should have a larger stash in this?

I would not actually argue against it, but even that is not going to resolve the issue of people selling such rounds, as people still won't use them as the problem is not the stash space, but carry weights vs damage output, thus there'd still be little point selling them...

I have actually tried... But why sell a single 6lb round for, say 20caps, and it sit there, and sit there, and sit there, when I can literally sell hundreds of rounds, for the same weight, regularly at 1cap each? Supply, and demand, which is what Free Markets are based around...

You've done nothing but complain about why the market doesn't work the way you think it should, maybe you need to actually understand the market, and how supply+demand factor into it, before wanting to discuss changes...

it seems you're trying to convey, that ammo types should be more equal/balanced in a way that would appeal to more players and thus be greater demand for XYZ launcher?

And it seems you're trying to build a strawman argument...

This was not what I was trying to convey at all... I was pointing out the fallacy in your claim that people not selling explosive rounds, amongst other ammo, had anything to do with stash size... The reason is supply and demand, with FO76 being a Free Market and all that...

Having said that, I certainly would not be against further rebalancing to bring explosive weapons upto a point where they are worth using compared to automatic, heavy ballistic, or even melee weapons and builds...

But that's not what this discussion is about, and I thought you wanted to stay on topic?

[Customer ******* Stole My Money!]

im not trying to debate or argue.
the topic is to simply make suggestions on how you would improve the trade system.
talk about your suggestions or comment on suggestion already made.

people expressing their opinion is going to be inevitable.
the trade system can be improved, that's my opinion, i think the trade system provided by bethesda is broken.

i think the lack of buy orders is what i refer to as "linear" trading.
it's an example of breaking a cycle of trade/mechanics.

i understand we have our ways to grease the wheels, but circle back to my premise this only means the mechanics can be improved.
or more precisely, we 'bethesda' can introduce more functionality to the lack of mechanics.




im glad that you recognize what a strawman argument is because i didnt want to explain what it was..
you should know however that im not the one who started talking about selling ammo.
i merely commented on somebody elses strawman "argument" simply for the sake of... segue into a civilized convo.
i simply wanted to express my opinion that 1c is the lowest price you could set and i dont happen to think that is an "ideal" trade scenerio.
i shared my reasons for why i sold 5.56 for more than 1c, and that when i do sell 5.56 they simply sell 4c.

doesnt require hypothetical thinking of what im doing or not doing aka selling or not selling.
and furthermore it doesnt matter if you refuse to buy 5.56 for 4c... because other people do.
thus my opinion is unchanged ; the trade system can be improved.





amongst this moderator who keeps deleting my messages and other people derailing the convo...and replying to each other -> directed at me...
it's easy to be confused as to who said what.


as to regards to my suggestion : you made the point of posting 5.56 ammo for too high price would make people reluctant buy it, right?
what's the difference between people making buy orders the same way?

they will simply not make the sale... hypothetical tough deal for this hypothetical scenerio.

and as for buy orders for legendaries, it's RNG and people are farming weapons all day long.
you will eventually get what you want, for the price you want.

that's my opinion, if somebody wants to ask WAY too much for a cheesey gun you dont want, that's NOT a reason to deny everybody else the proper functions to make proper market orders.

what's so bad about saying buy and sell would benefit the game??
people HAVE TO say i cant handle their opinion as a means to dismiss MY opinions.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

Having said that, I certainly would not be against further rebalancing to bring explosive weapons upto a point where they are worth using compared to automatic, heavy ballistic, or even melee weapons and builds...

But that's not what this discussion is about, and I thought you wanted to stay on topic?

see, then i get to comment :
i happen to use explosives on my demo toon.
i call her BOOMER.
i would appreciate more explosive types.
like HE and Pulse Grenade launchers.
that might be a way to balance explosives without mucking with the numbers.


see?
i didnt bite your head off and... OMFG, i agree?!
since the beginning i've done nothing but invite others to share SOMETHING COGENT to what i said.
other people keep gaslighting me...

LOL, it's actually funny at this point.

[Something completely different]

If you're not selling ammo you're asking too much. Supply and demand create a price.

People also do buy mags, bobbles and treasure maps fine from my vendor.
The only thing that sells really slow are plans but selling those feels more like a courtesy to help people get those plans they miss then anything else.

As for buy orders, I'd check some online market places for that. I am on a discord vendor with some veterans and it does make getting the good stuff easier.

[Bored Peon]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

Again, and again you demonstrate that the problem is not that the current trade system does not work, it's merely that it does not work the way you want it to work, with "buy orders" being another glaring example... It's an unnecessary feature, that would add little to no value to the game...

Only if you consider a complete and utter waste of time a thing of value.

Think about it with common sense for about three seconds. If camps were allowed to have buy order that means you would have to visit each and ever camp just to see what they want to buy and their prices.

Then figure in the technical and game mechanics aspect.
How is a player going to be able to process a buy order if their stash is full?
How do you set up buy orders for literally thousands of different legendary weapons and armor?

The vending machine system works perfectly fine the way it is. There is nothing broken about the trade system is generates. Players that know how to sell their stuff properly have no issues with it at all.

The suggestion that Collectrons are ruining the economy is joke worse than the ones they tell.

[Bored Peon]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Something completely different:

If you're not selling ammo you're asking too much. Supply and demand create a price.

It aint even that, sorta.

You can go days without selling certain types of ammo. Then eventually someone comes along and buys the whole amount.

I figure that is basically a weird supply and demand. You have 24 players per server and to sell your 5.56 ammo you need to have a player who actually uses a handmade, then they have to be too lazy to make their own ammo, and they need to have enough caps to travel around camps and buy ammo.

The same applies to any consumable like chems and food. You have to find the players who actually use chems and are too lazy to make their own (or do not know the recipe.) The same with selling things like salt, pepper, sugar bombs, and spices because again you need someone who will craft the stuff but does not collect their own.

So basically if you end up on a server where the population is self reliant you aint going to sell much of anything. The people with the demand for those items still exist, they just aint on your server. Which is why if you want to max your sales then you should swap servers every 30-60 minutes.

[Brian9824]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Bored Peon:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ruin:

Again, and again you demonstrate that the problem is not that the current trade system does not work, it's merely that it does not work the way you want it to work, with "buy orders" being another glaring example... It's an unnecessary feature, that would add little to no value to the game...

Only if you consider a complete and utter waste of time a thing of value.

Think about it with common sense for about three seconds. If camps were allowed to have buy order that means you would have to visit each and ever camp just to see what they want to buy and their prices.

Then figure in the technical and game mechanics aspect.
How is a player going to be able to process a buy order if their stash is full?
How do you set up buy orders for literally thousands of different legendary weapons and armor?

The vending machine system works perfectly fine the way it is. There is nothing broken about the trade system is generates. Players that know how to sell their stuff properly have no issues with it at all.

The suggestion that Collectrons are ruining the economy is joke worse than the ones they tell.

Not to mention that buy orders means the average person will never be able to get anything. Hackers/dupers, and those that are very high level would simply be able to outbid everyone as they have more money.