Need help with an Endless-VATS build (without using bloodied gear)

[Dr. Shenanigans]

To get things out of the way, I've tried every single tutorial I can to mitigate the performance problems I suffer from. And though it's more-or-less manageable on basegame, in the pitt, I just suffer because there are just so. many. enemies.

I'm level is 75 as of this post. Most VATS builds out there specialize in bloodied builds. I don't want that because I simply can't afford to take risks with bloodied gear.

What I want is something that will give me the means to be able to use VATS constantly during a framerate-chugging firefight while providing the right balance between damage and survivability.

Right now I'm mostly kitted out for GG/minigun heavy weapons and powered armor. What should I look for to maximize VATS usage while still maintaining survivability?

EDIT: typos

[ZDuB]

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by Dr. Shenanigans:

Right now I'm mostly kitted out for GG/minigun heavy weapons and powered armor. What should I look for to maximize VATS usage while still maintaining survivability?

That's like asking what's the best way of filling a Net with water.

VATS is bad in Power Armor. VATS is bad for heavy weapons. Bad + Bad = not good.

[Dr. Shenanigans]

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

Originally posted by Dr. Shenanigans:

Right now I'm mostly kitted out for GG/minigun heavy weapons and powered armor. What should I look for to maximize VATS usage while still maintaining survivability?

That's like asking what's the best way of filling a Net with water.

VATS is bad in Power Armor. VATS is bad for heavy weapons. Bad + Bad = not good.

Originally posted by ZDuB:

I should've elaborated more in the OP, my bad.

I'm aware that Big guns is not best for VATS, from what I've read, that goes more towards Automatic Rifles.

I can figure out the perks/SPECIAL side of things, what I'm having trouble with is the kinds of legendary mods I'll need to maximize VATS usage

[slippingsnake]

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

VATS is bad in Power Armor. VATS is bad for heavy weapons. Bad + Bad = not good.

true, especialy heavy guns with a spin time that eat half of your AP, like Minigun or Gatling Plasma/ Laser.

Gatling Gun is a different animal but low firerate means low DPS, still a good gun.

.50 Call Heavy Machine Gun also can make use of VATS, I used to use a HMG 2 shot explosive for Radiation Rumble and in VATS it is a Monster,not so good outside VATS.

However, if you want to stay in VATS as long as possible the Key element for all guns is the legendary effect "-25% AP cost".

works brilliant on Rifles and Pistols, though one has to use criticals to boost damage.

The only combination for endless VATS I know is an Assault Rifle with Reflex Sight and -25% AP cost: somehow this reduces the AP consumption to zero, hence endless VATS; there might be other combinations that can do the same.

[Dr. Shenanigans]

Originally posted by slippingsnake:

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

VATS is bad in Power Armor. VATS is bad for heavy weapons. Bad + Bad = not good.

true, especialy heavy guns with a spin time that eat half of your AP, like Minigun or Gatling Plasma/ Laser.

Gatling Gun is a different animal but low firerate means low DPS, still a good gun.

.50 Call Heavy Machine Gun alsocan make use of VATS, I used to use a HMG 2 shot explosive for Raiation Rumble and in VATS it is a Monster,not so good outside VATS.

However, if you want to stay in VATS as long as possible the Key element for all guns is the legendary effect "-25% AP cost".

works brilliant on Rifles and Pistols, though one has to use criticals to boost damage.

The only combination for endless VATS I know is an Assault Rifle with Reflex Sight,-25% AP cost: somehow this reduces the AP consumption to zero, hence endless VATS; there might be other combinations that can do the same.

I like this! I think I'll build/find one of those first and figure things out from there, thanks man!

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by Dr. Shenanigans:

I should've elaborated more in the OP, my bad.

I'm aware that Big guns is not best for VATS, from what I've read, that goes more towards Automatic Rifles.

I can figure out the perks/SPECIAL side of things, what I'm having trouble with is the kinds of legendary mods I'll need to maximize VATS usage

Heavy Weapons simply don't have the AP reduction mods that many Automatic Pistols and Rifles do. It's not even close.

On top of that, AP use drains the fusion core on Power Armor.

Your best bet would be to stack agility and AP regen like a madman.

I've tried it with an LMG and a Power Armor modded for VATS. It just doesn't work well. The Fusion Core drain alone will leave you crying.

[Bz131]

If you are kitted for heavy guns and power armor and for some reason want to use VATS the only real option imo is the Plasma Caster. I have an instigating one and basically one shot trash mobs with it (often even on body shots although with a VATS build you should definitely aim for headshots/weakspots) even without a VATS focused build. I swap to it when I am feeling lazy and since it is low rate of fire the fusion core drain isn't quite as abysmal as other heavy weapons. Not sure why others haven't mentioned it other than it is a Gold Bullion weapon and you need to finish the Vault Raid quest to get access to it.

[tdurham]

i solo the pit all the time an dont use vats, it is not necessary, i run it in p.a full health with all the rifelman perks an a plasma flamer rifel with vampire, makes it not a problem.

[Vic Evicerator]

For both of my main characters I use various Fixers that I swap between depending on situation - one that's just mass-damage (one char has a quad-explosive, the other has an overeater's with some VATS-enhancements), one that's a vampire for when I'm in trouble, and an anti-armor for bosses, robots, or Eviction Notice. Gun-Fu and Adrenaline perk cards really help in mob fights, but the real keys are in the Luck perk chain. There are a lot of cards there that help - Psychopath insta-fills your crit meter again on a kill and Four-Leaf Clover gives a small chance to insta-fill it on ANY hit, Better Crits gives a nice extra damage boost, and Grim Reaper's Sprint can refill your AP with each kill.

AP refill is also a plus - Action Boy/Girl is a must, plus foods/drinks with AP regen or AP boost like Company Tea, Corn Soup, lemonade (either regular or hard), etc..

[Dr. Shenanigans]

Originally posted by Vic Evicerator:

For both of my main characters I use various Fixers that I swap between depending on situation - one that's just mass-damage (one char has a quad-explosive, the other has an overeater's with some VATS-enhancements), one that's a vampire for when I'm in trouble, and an anti-armor for bosses, robots, or Eviction Notice. Gun-Fu and Adrenaline perk cards really help in mob fights, but the real keys are in the Luck perk chain. There are a lot of cards there that help - Psychopath insta-fills your crit meter again on a kill and Four-Leaf Clover gives a small chance to insta-fill it on ANY hit, Better Crits gives a nice extra damage boost, and Grim Reaper's Sprint can refill your AP with each kill.

AP refill is also a plus - Action Boy/Girl is a must, plus foods/drinks with AP regen or AP boost like Company Tea, Corn Soup, lemonade (either regular or hard), etc..

How do you get more fixers? As far as I know, the only way to get them is the faux sheepsquatch quest.

EDIT: I just found out - the encryptid public event.

Originally posted by slippingsnake:

....The only combination for endless VATS I know is an Assault Rifle with Reflex Sight and -25% AP cost: somehow this reduces the AP consumption to zero, hence endless VATS; there might be other combinations that can do the same.

I just rolled a -25% AP cost assault rifle, added a recon scope, and tested this out... it did not work.

Are you sure it's not something else, like the combat rifle?

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by Dr. Shenanigans:

Originally posted by Vic Evicerator:

For both of my main characters I use various Fixers that I swap between depending on situation - one that's just mass-damage (one char has a quad-explosive, the other has an overeater's with some VATS-enhancements), one that's a vampire for when I'm in trouble, and an anti-armor for bosses, robots, or Eviction Notice. Gun-Fu and Adrenaline perk cards really help in mob fights, but the real keys are in the Luck perk chain. There are a lot of cards there that help - Psychopath insta-fills your crit meter again on a kill and Four-Leaf Clover gives a small chance to insta-fill it on ANY hit, Better Crits gives a nice extra damage boost, and Grim Reaper's Sprint can refill your AP with each kill.

AP refill is also a plus - Action Boy/Girl is a must, plus foods/drinks with AP regen or AP boost like Company Tea, Corn Soup, lemonade (either regular or hard), etc..

How do you get more fixers? As far as I know, the only way to get them is the faux sheepsquatch quest.

EDIT: I just found out - the encryptid public event.

Originally posted by slippingsnake:

....The only combination for endless VATS I know is an Assault Rifle with Reflex Sight and -25% AP cost: somehow this reduces the AP consumption to zero, hence endless VATS; there might be other combinations that can do the same.

I just rolled a -25% AP cost assault rifle, added a recon scope, and tested this out... it did not work.

Are you sure it's not something else, like the combat rifle?

Assault Rifle is not a Heavy Weapon.

What, exactly, are you looking for? This:

https://fed76.info/a/zerovats/

If you notice, Heavy Weapons do not have the mods needed to reduce VATS by any significant degree.

[Samurai Frog]

might just have to lower graphic settings in pitt

[Dr. Shenanigans]

Originally posted by Hefutoxin:

Originally posted by Dr. Shenanigans:

How do you get more fixers? As far as I know, the only way to get them is the faux sheepsquatch quest.

EDIT: I just found out - the encryptid public event.



I just rolled a -25% AP cost assault rifle, added a recon scope, and tested this out... it did not work.

Are you sure it's not something else, like the combat rifle?

Assault Rifle is not a Heavy Weapon.

What, exactly, are you looking for? This:

https://fed76.info/a/zerovats/

If you notice, Heavy Weapons do not have the mods needed to reduce VATS by any significant degree.

Alright, we are clearly on completely different pages now.

What you think I want is not what my intentions are. I know I will have to drastically alter my current build if I want to choose a different weapon.

I don't care gun or build I end up with, I just want to be able to kill sh*t without bethesda's dogsh*t optimization getting in my way. Limitless AP VATS builds looks like the way to go.

I've tried every single tutorial for optimizing my game. I'm also a linux player, which contains far different baggage than windows has.

I'm sorry that I didn't make this clearer, I'm sorry that I put it into your head that I wanted a heavy-guns-vats build. that is not what I want,

I don't care what weapon I use. I just want to kill ♥♥♥♥ in areas where the game slows to a crawl.

[SerialGamer]

Here is a video of my stealth gunslinger build handling "From Ashes to Fire" with ease ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4EVEz0Rwl0 ). I have low health, but this works for full health too.

I use gauss pistol. For full health I recommend:

Level 50 gauss pistol, base damage 115
Hardened receiver: +25% damage
All Gunslinger perk cards at max rank: +60% damage
Bloody Mess perk card: +15% damage
Aristocrat legendary effect: +50% damage if you carry 29k caps or more.

That turns 115 base damage into 287. Sneak damage adds 100% and it becomes 574. Use Concentrated Fire to target heads to get +50% of base damage, and Tank Killer to ignore up to 36% enemy's armor. With all these you can one-shot most Fanatics. You may need to two- or three-shot trogs. If you do it fast, you can kill them before they detect you and shoot poison.

A full-health build can boost stealth with Chameleon armor and the Sneak and/or Escape Artist perk cards. All my kills in the video are stealth kills. (I have a full set of Unyielding armor that adds 15 Agility at low health which boosts my stealth greatly.)

Each enemy drops 4 to 32 rounds of 2mm EC. So if you kill most of them with fewer than 4 rounds, you can end up with a (tremendous) net gain of ammo. I go in with 1000+ rounds of 2mm EC and often come out with 1800-2000+. This makes repeated playthroughs viable if you don't have to worry about crafting ammo (and 2mm is expensive to craft).

"From Ashes to Fire" is a little easier than "Union Dues" because it doesn't have a final boss fight that would waste your ammo.

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by Dr. Shenanigans:

Alright, we are clearly on completely different pages now.

What you think I want is not what my intentions are. I know I will have to drastically alter my current build if I want to choose a different weapon.

I don't care gun or build I end up with, I just want to be able to kill sh*t without bethesda's dogsh*t optimization getting in my way. Limitless AP VATS builds looks like the way to go.

I've tried every single tutorial for optimizing my game. I'm also a linux player, which contains far different baggage than windows has.

I'm sorry that I didn't make this clearer, I'm sorry that I put it into your head that I wanted a heavy-guns-vats build. that is not what I want,

I don't care what weapon I use. I just want to kill ♥♥♥♥ in areas where the game slows to a crawl.

Aiight, I think I understand you now.
Kill a ton of enemies in a situation where your frames are bad.

Vampires Gatling Plasma
Hellcat or T-65 Power Armor
Stack Endurance.
No VATS

"Stabilized" Perk does a ton of heavy lifting for Heavy Weapon + Power Armor.
"Electric Absorption" Legendary Perk is far better than most people realize.

You can simply walk through Mordor with this while still killing at a decent speed.