Ran some tests on weapon magazines

[Phantom]

Inspired by - to refine my weapon builds...
https://fed76.info/a/unlisted-item-mod-effects/

Ran some quick tests, had the theory that the armour penetration shares the effect of tank killers so I had to go more in depth... turns out they don't

Tested

Base (control)(tank killer 0, 1, 2, 3)
Perforating (superior armour penetration)(tank killer 0, 1, 2, 3)
Stinging (improved armour penetration)(tank killer 0, 1, 2, 3)
Piercing (armour penetration)(tank killer 0, 1, 2, 3)

Repeated with Anti Armour + above

Results

Base = Perforating = Stinging = Piercing the Adds "enchModArmorPenetration" with value 1 to Enchantments is bugged

Using the same enemy group for the test using awareness and damage checks, no team, same health, no buffs

They were 62 / 62 / 103 for all with tank killer 0
They were 54 / 54 / 90 for all with tank killer 1
They were 47 / 47 / 78 for all with tank killer 2
They were 39 / 39 / 65 for all with tank killer 3
AA took off an additional 50% from all values but again no magazine had a difference

Damage tests were the exact same values for all of the magazines types, using hidden headshot

Can conclude that ALL magazines with "armour penetration" do not have an in game effect right now

So if you are using those feel free to ditch them for a better type of magazine

[GeneralGamePlaying]

So with tank killer 3 i would dump the perforating magazines in favor of something else?

But anti-armor remains useful? [I'd assume yes, as i've been comparing various compound bows at least on supermutants up to level 100, AA, instigating, mutant slayer probably too, carrying one aa bow as a ranged backup thing, dumped executioners and instigating for now. Mostly using with Scorchbeasts though. AND plasma pistols aa/quad. But those weapons might behave differently, "bow before me" and energy guns anti armor having been *fixed* some time ago.]

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by GeneralGamePlaying:

So with tank killer 3 i would dump the perforating magazines in favor of something else?

But anti-armor remains useful? [I'd assume yes, as i've been comparing various compound bows at least on supermutants up to level 100, AA, instigating, mutant slayer probably too, carrying one aa bow as a ranged backup thing, dumped executioners and instigating for now. Mostly using with Scorchbeasts though. AND plasma pistols aa/quad. But those weapons might behave differently, "bow before me" and energy guns anti armor having been *fixed* some time ago.]

He's saying Perforating Magazines do nothing at all. There is zero reason to use them at any time.

[Phantom]

all armour reduction magazines did nothing at all, my theory was they were the same buff as the tank killer, but that didn't turn out to be the case

tank killer and anti armour both work

[Winston Churchill]

Thanks for investigating this. Will swap out my mags for full ammo capacity.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

I've suspected this to be the case since the damage is quite identical with or without perforating or anything similar. I recently switched to Swift for extra reload speed.

[Phantom]

And now having been 8 hours

I go do a west tek run (vendor caps) and things that took two hits survive with a tiny bit of health now, AA fixer no super mutant would take 3 shots before, now until I've got 4+ kills they are taking 3 shots...

I hate how this game does things, badly (it just works)

its possible that this is yet another server mod issue where you can get multiple effects by changing mods until you switch servers

would not explain the tester weapons all being the same though... They were automatic combat rifles that had standard magazines that I added the new one too. So they were all basic... but perhaps the magazine effect didn't kick until a server change occurs...

did a vats awareness check with my quad fixer and the enemies I checked last night multiple times had slightly higher armour values than before... possible it was a slightly different group of 3 cultists, but at least one should have been the same

man now I'm not even sold on what the tests and numbers showed just yesterday

[Mooman]

The test is flawed. You state 'Hidden headshot' which already nullifies the tests.

DR works by reducing damage from 0.01 to 0.99 via an equation (look up on wiki for Fallout 4).

If you do 6.5 times the targets DR you will do max damage, hidden headshots will definitely out damage most targets DR.

Only way to test is with a static spawn (Behemoth at Solomons pond is a good one).

[Hefutoxin]

I tested it.

Crafted Hunting Rifles. The only difference between the two was Perforating Magazine.
Zero perks affecting rifles. No mutations.

No difference in "Awareness" resistances shown.
No difference in damage.
Exact same enemy. Shot with one rifle, shot with the other rifle. Killed with a Flamer afterward.

Logged out, waited. Logged back in. Same test on a different enemy. Same results.

Armor Penetration Magazine does nothing, at least with Hunting Rifles.

[Mooman]

Actually... after doing my own tests vs the Behemoth at Solomons I'd have to agree with the OP and others there does seem to be a problem with armour mags. Tested using combat shotguns without suppressors or team buffs etc, just different mags.

Weird thing is awareness showed 2 different DR for out of combat to in.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2418157001

Out of combat: DR250

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2418157082

Combat started: DR260

Was same for both guns.

Guns used:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2418163933
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2418164012

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Mooman:

The test is flawed. You state 'Hidden headshot' which already nullifies the tests.

DR works by reducing damage from 0.01 to 0.99 via an equation (look up on wiki for Fallout 4).

If you do 6.5 times the targets DR you will do max damage, hidden headshots will definitely out damage most targets DR.

Only way to test is with a static spawn (Behemoth at Solomons pond is a good one).

Well that was one of two parts of the test

the first part of the test was using the perception perk to see what the enemies armour values actually are

the second part was to see if I was getting different damage values from hits

39x6.5 = 253.5

using the base combat rifles was in the well below that at 151 for the tank killer 3 tests



I didn't check them after they were alerted and 'in combat'

[GeneralGamePlaying]

Already swapped, for Swift magazine though. Appears to work just as fine.

I do remember testing perforating vs other magazines, but it might have been during beta. Back then perforating won out.

[Phantom]

Did some more, the magazine isn't make a damage difference

will have to do some more server hop tests but it seems likely it does nothing right now (bugged)