The perfect roll

[Lord of Cinder]

Funny thing I see is the obsession people have with bloodied weapons. I have made topics in the past pointing out how bloodied is far less valuable than what most people think, so not gonna go there.

What I want to touch is the so-called "God rolls", which aren't as great as many seem to believe, especially second or third stars.

Example: Bloodied, 25% FFR, 15% reload speed Fixer.

Is this a "God roll?" Believe it or not...No.

If you have a rifle with a tiny magazine, the FFR and reload speed will certainly increase your dps...but there are better dps boosts.

For a weapon like Fixer, which is primarily used in vats, the "God roll" will be something like

Quad/Anti-armor, 50% vats crit, 25% less action points cost.

Quad will fix the tiny magazine problem and boost overall dps, Anti-armor will be the best choice for damage sponge targets, 50% vats crit will ignore damage mitigation(very noticeable on bosses) and less AP will allow you to spam the trigger for longer.

My point is that what most consider to be "the best" highly depends on the weapon and what the majority considers OP, is actually often inferior to other, commonly overlooked options.

[Phantom]

you are so very, very wrong

B FFR 15r is a god roll weapon

1 - the fixer can be EASILY rendered a 1ap per shot weapon... vat reduction is pointless
2 - The reload time on a fixer can be made to about .67 of a second... its essentially an infinite ammo weapon then so the clip size hardly matters
3 - bloodied is very good with crit, like very good, also very good like very very good with ffr
4 - quad is awesome yes when paired with ffr or crit
5 - with food buffs you actually get higher dps with ffr than a crit weapon
6 - AA is awesome yes (and imo my choice, my aa ffr 15r fixer is liquid death)

so min / max FFR is the highest dps boost from the second star
so min / max quad is the highest dps with AA trailing just behind and B almost as close


Its a common misconception that 50c is an amazing thing that trumps all

[Arcanix]

25% FFR, 15% reload speed is a good one. But now there are additional rolls that are interesting. % chance to stealth on hit. What that basically is, you crouch and you get a sneak attack. You dont have to be invisible, just have the mob engaging someone else.

Yea the perk cards stack. Id trade the reload for this sneak.

[Lord of Cinder]

Originally posted by Phantom:

you are so very, very wrong

B FFR 15r is a god roll weapon

1 - the fixer can be EASILY rendered a 1ap per shot weapon... vat reduction is pointless
2 - The reload time on a fixer can be made to about .67 of a second... its essentially an infinite ammo weapon then so the clip size hardly matters
3 - bloodied is very good with crit, like very good, also very good like very very good with ffr
4 - quad is awesome yes when paired with ffr or crit
5 - with food buffs you actually get higher dps with ffr than a crit weapon
6 - AA is awesome yes (and imo my choice, my aa ffr 15r fixer is liquid death)

so min / max FFR is the highest dps boost from the second star
so min / max quad is the highest dps with AA trailing just behind and B almost as close


Its a common misconception that 50c is an amazing thing that trumps all

I can see FFR being better for Quad and reload speed for AA.

Originally posted by Arcanix:

25% FFR, 15% reload speed is a good one. But now there are additional rolls that are interesting. % chance to stealth on hit. What that basically is, you crouch and you get a sneak attack. You dont have to be invisible, just have the mob engaging someone else.

Yea the perk cards stack. Id trade the reload for this sneak.

For me the stealth field is trash, but whatever floats your boat.

[Mooman]

'God rolls' will depend on the content you typically play. You have to take into consideration the damage resistance equation: [fallout.fandom.com] DamageCoeff = min (0.99, [(Damage * 0.15) / DamageResist] ^ 0.365)

In sort you will do your highest damage (99%) if your damage is 6.6 times your targets damage resistance. You can get to this number via either higher damage or lower resistance.

Now if you typically only fight Scorched, Blood Eagles, Ghouls etc. that have low resistances then it is easy for most weapons to out muscle the resistance equation. If you typically fight Super Mutants, Scorchbeasts, Sheepsquash etc. that have higher resistances then lowering their resistances through AA or perks is easier to get to that 6.6 target.

It gets even more complicated with crits as the bonus damage ignores resistances so if you can crit often (for example: luck at >33 or four leaf clover perk) then 50% crit damage can be a 'god roll' effect. Factor in stealth bonuses (covert op, follow through) as well and it gets even further complicated.

I find Quad to be less useful for the majority of content as there often isn't enough bodies to go around that not needing to reload is of benefit greater than just higher damage output, of course if you only fight the bosses that changes things.

If you also add in Unyielding benefits of higher AP from Agility then a less economical weapon can do just fine with Grim Reapers Sprint topping off AP.

The reason the FFR, FR meta came about is because it is how things have worked in other games, a damage boost and a reload boost. If everyone is looking for a small selection of effects it is easier to gather/sell.

Fallout 76 doesn't have the ammo systems of games like that so having high dps but poor ammo economy can be a detriment to certain players, a good example is the Enclave Plasma Flamer.

What is a 'god roll' to you may not be to someone else, the only way to know is to try out what you have and see if it works for the content you play.

[Arcanix]

Originally posted by Lord of Cinder:

Originally posted by Arcanix:

25% FFR, 15% reload speed is a good one. But now there are additional rolls that are interesting. % chance to stealth on hit. What that basically is, you crouch and you get a sneak attack. You dont have to be invisible, just have the mob engaging someone else.

Yea the perk cards stack. Id trade the reload for this sneak.

For me the stealth field is trash, but whatever floats your boat.

Its trash to you cuz you cant see past FFR, FR. Whatever floats your boat.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Arcanix:

25% FFR, 15% reload speed is a good one. But now there are additional rolls that are interesting. % chance to stealth on hit. What that basically is, you crouch and you get a sneak attack. You dont have to be invisible, just have the mob engaging someone else.

Yea the perk cards stack. Id trade the reload for this sneak.

maybe if your not unyielding or you didn't max agility

otherwise its a very minimal almost pointless buff and certainly one of the worst options in the slow

The reason 25% FFR beats 50c is simple

50c is an additive bonus, you can get a lot of other additive crit bonuses including 70% from blight soup alone

whereas the FFR while additive adds to almost nothing so it tends to make a much larger percentage of damage

say ex

you have 120% bonus normally to crit vs 170% bonus to crit with 50c its a nice boost on every second or third shot when you successfully tap crit

vs

getting 25% more shots means your base shots hit more often and your crit at 120% is still awesome, but you crit 25% more frequently which doing apples to apples really brings it up to 150% crit vs 170% crit and you get to do 25% more regular damage

It not only eeks out 50c it flat out crushes it by several percentage

Quad is nice for sustained, but like I said a fixer can not only because a 1ap weapon it can also become a fractional second reload weapon

[Lord of Cinder]

Originally posted by Arcanix:

Originally posted by Lord of Cinder:

For me the stealth field is trash, but whatever floats your boat.

Its trash to you cuz you cant see past FFR, FR. Whatever floats your boat.

This entire post was pointing out that FFR and FR are not THAT great. Grats on great reading comprehension.

Btw, even if the stealth field works and allows you to get a sneak attack, that sneak attack will work only if you are "Hidden", not "Cautious", as long as the enemy is aggroed by someone else(like team members). And If you are "Hidden" anyway, it doesn't matter if the field procs or not.

This means that if you fight a tough enemy like a boss in a group, the stealth field will do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and if you are alone it will die fast anyway.

[Dracul]

Different strokes for different folks, I personally don't really like the RNG nature of stealth field and I dont really care for bloodied builds. I tend to lean towards anti-armor , maybe Aristocrates now that im leaning towards 'not poor' but I have a Furious Exploding Faster Reload lever action thats a nice little work horse.

Right now though all my modules are going towards gambling for secret service armor that has the stuff im looking for, got two today i'd classify as 'perfect' for what I had in mind, and one near perfect.

[Sole]

I mean sure quad can be nice, depends on your play style. not to mention that quad god roll fixers are like in another league of price. personally i had a bloodied and vamp explosive plasma and i definitely prefer vamp.

[Phantom]

So the point being made slightly above this is

You can cheat turning a 18% chance to 100% chance (in the extremely valuable luck slot to boot losing 3 perk cards there is pretty sacrificial) so legit play is pointless?

Well I mean you can just ammo glitch cheat any gun to have 999 ammo in a clip so quad is pointless...

Some of us don't see cheating as a valid form of gameplay though

That is where reload speed matters