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As for "real fallout" difficulty, I think you may not have played real fallout before? Fallout 3 scaled enemies to the level you were at when you first entered an area. Fallout 4 scaled all spawns to your level at the time you first loaded the cell. New vegas has a weird hybrid mix that sort of scales and sort of keeps things the same. Fallout 1 and 2 had static NPCs that mostly stayed the same and random encounters that scaled very closely to your level, I think every 3 or 4 levels it would change to a different tier. The only fallout game that comes close to having this game's original system was fallout tactics, where each enemy type was its own "tier" and the encounters were strictly based on your geographical location, where the mutants you found at level 3 were the same mutants you would find at level 20. Calling fallout tactics the only real fallout game would be quite the hot take around...well, anywhere really
Yes, the post may seem a year too late to some of you but this week is when I really thought about why I don't play anymore. I noticed after the recent update that I haven't touched this since October 2020 and though about why. It was 100% the "One Wasteland" level scaling change. It's too bad they didn't make it optional so everyone would be happy. It can't be that hard to have One Wasteland servers, and separate non-One Wasteland servers. I'd happily opt out of One Wasteland and start playing again. Talking about it really makes me miss the game that Fallout 76 used to be.
For some reason it seems to be okay for game developers to make major changes to fully released games these days and those of us who liked the product we purchased suddenly no longer have the same game we bought and enjoyed. We end up shelving a game we put a lot of time into, a game that perhaps we really enjoyed, and that bothers me. I really loved the game despite all the bad press and now I can't be bothered to play it because One Wasteland ruined the experience for me.
One Wasteland may make the game appeal to more casual players, or players who don't want to put in any effort to level in order to see different parts of the game. That's probably what they were going for, so mission accomplished I guess, but it's not what I want and I'm a customer, too, and that's not the game I bought. It would be better to cater to both groups. Why? I no longer play, so I no longer pay. I know I'm just one player, but I'm not the only one who stopped because of One Wasteland.
One Wasteland also affects immersion. An area known to have tough enemies now has enemies of exactly the right difficulty for you every time you go there. No matter where you go over the majority of the map you know you'll be able to handle the challenge because the game automatically tailors every single encounter to your level. You no longer have any anxiety or fear of running into enemies 10 or 20 levels above you in the early game. You know that every single thing you see won't be any better than you are and that's just not the Fallout 76 I want, nor the Fallout 76 that I bought. That change, though seemingly minor to some, is not a small difference. I run around with zero fear of failure in the early game and that's not nearly as much fun as knowing I could run into something that can utterly demolish me and knowing I may have to flee from some early game encounters.
Papa Shekels, I've played every single Fallout game including Tactics and that abomination of a Playstation 2/Xbox game called Fallout Brotherhood of Steel. I've also played the original Wasteland, and own the updated version of Wasteland, Wasteland 2, and Wasteland 3 but haven't tried the third yet. They started to use some serious level scaling in the newer games but even in Fallout 4 it does not seem as blatant as what they've done in 76.
Yes, Fallout 3 and New Vegas do have different scaling systems, as do some of the other games, but it doesn't scale everything in the entire early to mid game to your level like 76 does. There's no big issue with random encounters being level scaled, but it would be fine if enemy levels in random encounters were also random and you occasionally had to flee or avoid the encounter since you could do that in the early games. You can still do that now in most cases. In the turn based games I remember that I did have to flee from some of the random encounters, so I know some of them were not all tuned to your level or group composition.
I'm not saying what they did in the other Fallout games is perfect, but the level scaling (however much or little there may have been) all felt better than 76 does. I don't want level scaling to the point where everything I run into in the entire early and mid game is scaled to my level, exactly to my level. Yeah, if a few encounters are scaled, or a few areas have scaling that's fine, but I don't want almost every enemy to magically be my level no matter what the circumstances.
Why? I want to be able to go places I shouldn't. I want to be allowed to try content I'm not really ready for. I want the chance to try, fail, improve, and try again. One Wasteland removes that almost completely. I'm the right power level almost all the time. I don't have to go improve because if I do the enemy improves, too and it doesn't really make it any easier when my character gets better. Yeah, I may have to grab a better weapon, or armour, but that's it. My character doesn't have to get better, nor do I. In One Wasteland the enemy is handed to me on a silver platter, at just the right difficulty, so I should be able to succeed unless I really mess up. Prior to One Wasteland it was more like being handed a surprise package, sometimes with the surprise of much easier enemies than expected, and sometimes with an encounter you simply can't handle. I vastly preferred that to the silver platter we've got now.
Well, being a new player is probably the reason why you don't get the issue. You haven't played the pre-One Wasteland version. Also, One Wasteland might be the experience you prefer had you played prior to that update, but it is definitely not the experience I prefer.
p.s. This is not a "git gud" issue, folks. The early and mid game got too easy, not too difficult, with the introduction of One Wasteland. The "git gud" mantra does not apply.
No, I did not play at launch. I waited until the game went on sale after they ironed out a lot of the initial bugs and issues the game had. I don't see that as a major issue, you go somewhere else if you find enemies that are too tough. This change seems to be made for people who want the game's world to adapt to them and not to players who prefer a game world that makes them adapt. A world where you have to deal with challenges that you may not be able to handle... yet.
We don't get that experience anymore. One Wasteland tailors most early and mid game encounters to your level instead of tossing challenges at us where we have a significant chance of failure. I had fun going into places that should have been too tough for my character when I was a bit under geared and a lower level than I should have been, and when I succeeded there was a feeling of accomplishment. When I failed, well, that was a "Yep, that's what should have happened and it's my fault." experience and it's much better than giving everyone situations they can always win.
You really need to actually PLAY the game to understand it. Just because it says "level scaling" doesn't mean everything is the same at every location.
There are minimum and maximum levels for various enemies/areas. Make a new character and head east. Suddenly, everything isn't level 2, is it?
Enemies themselves have variants. As I stated in a different thread, Liberators go from Mk 0 to Mk V. There is a significant difference between them, even when they show the same level.
Just because you can mow down a group of Ghouls in Morgantown doesn't mean you are doing the same to a pack of Gulpers or Anglers in the Mire.
I have just over 239 hours into the game and I do understand this. There are indeed some areas that tend to have tougher variants which is probably the one thing saving the One Wasteland experience from being a complete snooze fest for the first 30 levels or so. Thanks for pointing it out because it hadn't been part of the conversation so far.
Pre-One Wasteland you could easily outlevel the enemies and damage boosts were multiplied instead of added. By level 40, the level 68 enemies stopped being a threat.
Most people complain that One Wasteland made the game harder, especially by making enemies more bullet spongy between levels 20 and 45. But really, it just took out the difficulty spike at Whitespring where high levels keep level 68 Ghouls spawned there while leaving the entire map open for high levels to play in.
Yeah, bullet sponge enemies aren't usually a good solution to a lack of difficulty so I understand why people would complain about that. Thanks for bringing that up.
Level scaling isn't the enemy, its implementation can be, the important thing about One Wasteland is even with the scaling, some enemies are straight up stronger because they're just stronger variants, for example: Charred Ghouls are always much harder than Gangrenous, even if they're the same "level"
I'm glad they got rid of the bloodied op damage multiplier ♥♥♥♥ though, the game is already stupid easy, if you're playing Fallout 76 and the make-or-break for you was being able to instagib everything and loot grind as fast as possible, you weren't playing the game, the game was playing you. (Or you're an RMT player, in which case lol git rekt)
You're exaggerating a bit. No one ever had to grind for 20 hours in the forest. They could choose to, but it was far from necessary. I played numerous characters before the One Wasteland update and not once did I feel the need to grind for even a few hours.
I can't argue with the changes to damage bonuses, stacking multipliers can definitely get out of control.
Nope, it was not at all about insta-gibbing and loot grinding, but it's a good thing to bring up.
Had to look up RMT, definitely not RMT.
You said you want the challenge and that everything is too easy? K, what is your build? Are you running a meta build? Is that why it is too easy? Because I run a vats build built around automatic weapons and while I do kill things at a steady pace, it isn't easy at level 197, infact, I die my fair number of times. My gun does 56 damage, jumps to 136 with my abilities/perks, where as my flamer absolutely destroys limbs and leaves mobs to be my play things. Still, it isn't easy, but it isn't hard either, imo, it is just right.
Where as before, it was downright impossible at times. Game change is a good things sometimes. Just imagine if they didn't change scorch beasts. Then every encounter with them, would look like this.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/340759560?filter=highlights&sort=time
As stated by others in this thread, it was a good and very positive change.
People died repeatedly and used up all their resources trying to kill a couple of the enemies, then had nothing left to finish the quest and lost all their progress. Time may have erased this from memory, but poor level scaling in quest progression was a VERY common complaint before one wasteland. If you kept your gear in good shape, took useful perks for your level, and didn't just blindly rush through the quests, you would be more than capable of it. But it's also just wrong to say the game has no challenge in its current state, many high level enemies can melt you if you're not careful even with maxed out gear. Assaultrons, gutsies, and the mutants with assault rifles come to mind.
But this game can not expect you to be a hardcore rpg player just to be able to progress. With a game like this, you can make things more difficult for yourself if you want, but you can't really make it easier beyond what the game offers. So the game difficulty needs to be easy enough for the average player to get through without too much frustration. Some still complain that it's hard, but nowhere near as often in the past, and that's just a sign that they still have some awareness of the rest of the playerbase too. The part about making it harder falls on you as a player. Level is only one of many factors, and it seems you give it too much credit for its effect on the game. You can use non-meta builds, you can try underused weapons, you can limit your gear or perk choices, you can abstain from legendary gear or mutations or some other mechanic. It's a bit unfair to complain about things being too easy if you still try your best to optimize everything to be as easy as possible.
Or you don't have to accept any of it. If you only want a true unfair challenge, you may genuinely just be better off playing other games. Bethesda fallouts and on very hard and the more recent wasteland games on supreme jerk already make you take double damage and deal half. Combine that with hardcore rate adjustments, tougher enemies, maybe a removal or randomizer of scaled enemies, and any other array of mods you want to make it harder, and that should get the job done
I see what you're getting at, but that's not the same thing.
As stated by others in this thread, it wasn't a good change and they preferred the game before One Wasteland. (Seriously, others said that. It isn't just me.)
I have no issue with level 60s being in any random area and stomping me if I am not smart and/or careful enough to avoid them. Getting one-shotted should be something that happens from time to time. It's actually better that way than knowing you're going to be safe in about 80% of the world because it caters to your level and holds your hand the whole way. It's supposed to be difficult, you aren't supposed to succeed at every quest you try, there's supposed to be a chance of failure, a chance to run into things you can't deal with. Now that just doesn't happen for the majority of the early and mid game.
No meta builds, I don't even know what any of the meta builds are, and I'm not that good at the game. I almost never use VATS, and I don't really like it. It's kind of a crutch for people who can't aim. I've only used it to try out some of the perks that affect it. I prefer to do all the aiming myself, which means there are some perks that are pointless for me to take because I don't enjoy those builds. I usually make characters that fit a theme or concept and sometimes I run characters that are just about average at almost everything.
They did make a few good changes, I just don't like the overall feel since One Wasteland dropped and the heavy handed level scaling was forced into the game. I'd really be happy if they made it optional, it really wouldn't be that hard to have some servers with it on, and some with it off. They clearly have code written for both so... it's possible to make us all happy.
So I should lose the game I bought and enjoyed because of some casuals? Because of major changes made after I paid and played for a long time? How's that fair to me, and others who preferred the pre-One Wasteland version? It isn't.
Players should die repeatedly when they make mistakes, and the whole point of having resources is to progress or repair and recover from failure. Otherwise what's the point? Why balance the scales so much that you know you'll be successful 100% of the time if you stick to the "right" areas? There should be more uncertainty, more chance of failure, and that provides more chances to succeed when you shouldn't. They took that away from a large portion of the game. Now I know if I go to certain areas the enemies will always be my level and I'll always be able to deal with them if I'm even remotely prepared. It's hand-holding and spoon feeding, and I don't really agree with it.
I am a big Fallout fan. I ended up being quite surprised at how much I enjoyed Fallout 76, especially given that it had a pretty bad launch and got a lot of bad press and negative reviews. I was having fun, playing quite often, but then One Wasteland happened and the game was worsened, diminished, reduced and I just stopped playing.