Question about weapon and enemy levels. Are enemies unavoidably (and progressively) get boss level tanky after 50 lvl?

[Klown Thinker :)]

Currently at lvl 56 and enjoying gunplay a lot but I'm starting to wonder about level scaling. Weapon levels max out at 50 but enemies continue leveling up after 50, scaling with your level. Does that mean enemies are going to be bullet spongy no matter what and you are forced to get weapon damage perks, in order to fight normal enemies?

I do like my bosses tanky, but not sure that I like the fact that normal enemies take 20 sniper bullets to the head (paraphrasing here, my weapons stats are not awful mind you). I understand a need for challenge but it feels odd that lower level players do more damage against enemies than you do (noticed this during coop playthrough). Why there is no lvl upgrades higher than 50?

Can someone explain this to me, addressing weapon level scaling compared to enemies levels scaling (apologies if my english is clumsy).

[Kondor70]

Level scaling came in with a lot of soy milk in it , completely killed meritocracy...just like irl. Weapon level is not relevant but the character level makes all difference (damage + resistance). I believe that 4 headshots to kill a ghoul is simply ridiculous , mainly when you know what different calibers can do irl.

[Eriskumma]

Enemies get tankier as they level up, as does higher level bosses.
You really need to fine tune your build to keep up, not just weapon damage perks but other buffs too like tank killer/stabilized/incisor, adrenaline, tenderizer etc.
This game is all about damage per second, rifleman builds can have difficulties keeping up with heavy gunners or commandos since most rifles have very slow firing rate, even if damage per hit is high DPS isn't that great.

[Perkanis]

yup you haft to have the damage perks otherwise you are basicly firing cotton balls

[Klown Thinker :)]

I guess this should be expected with any RPG game, but it's bizarre that I have to ignore all other weapons (for example automatic weapons, because I invested in non-automatic pistols and rifles) and only focus on certain weapons in order to do decent damage, when in true survival situation, you would attempt to use anything you have in your arsenal.

That is unfortunate. I currently feel the balance is just right, you just have to be smart in gunfights. Would hate it that I have to play certain way in order survive just basic henchmen.

[BizarreMan]

Mobs have a min / max level based on the area of the map.

If your level is below the min, they will be at min. If your level is above their max, they will be at the max. If your level is between those two numbers. Their level will scale up as you go up.

In the Forest Area, 50 is the max for all mobs. So every time you level up (and you are below 50), those mobs will level right up with you.

And for added confusion, mob levels are different for each player based on their own personal level. For example, you are level 25 and I'm level 200. If we are in Morgantown fighting a scorched, you will see that scorched as level 25, I will see it as level 50. If you pop over to the SBQ, you will see her as level 74, I will see her as level 105.

Clear as mud?

[buttmunch]

I'm only lv 100 but have no trouble with regular enemies, I do swap perk cards out based on what weapons I want to use. I usually play stealth while questing using rifleman or archery + melee. Sometimes with a shotgun for backup. Headshots kill most regular enemies in 1 shot.

The tankier enemies especially legendaries can be a struggle though.

Some weapons (pistols) just suck no matter how many perk cards you have.

[Klown Thinker :)]

Originally posted by BizarreMan:

Mobs have a min / max level based on the area of the map.

If your level is below the min, they will be at min. If your level is above their max, they will be at the max. If your level is between those two numbers. Their level will scale up as you go up.

In the Forest Area, 50 is the max for all mobs. So every time you level up (and you are below 50), those mobs will level right up with you.

And for added confusion, mob levels are different for each player based on their own personal level. For example, you are level 25 and I'm level 200. If we are in Morgantown fighting a scorched, you will see that scorched as level 25, I will see it as level 50. If you pop over to the SBQ, you will see her as level 74, I will see her as level 105.

Clear as mud?

OK, that part is clear now. Now I'm just a bit annoyed at weapon max level scale. Feels ridiculous that enemies (normal enemies, I don't care about bosses) can get to lvl 100, along with their hp and damage, but I can't. Never like when a player is restricted to certain perks and playstyle. Maybe I shouldn't complain. There just are some things that can kill my immersion and enjoyment.

[Angela]

After reaching like L100 something I don't think any more scaling happens, if that's the question you're wanting answered.

So a L200 guy and a L150 guy of same build and gear and buffs has same numbers of bullets required to kill a mob at its own max level (like a super mutant warlord L100).

[BizarreMan]

Originally posted by Angela:

After reaching like L100 something I don't think any more scaling happens, if that's the question you're wanting answered.

So a L200 guy and a L150 guy of same build and gear and buffs has same numbers of bullets required to kill a mob at its own max level (like a super mutant warlord L100).

At that point it just comes down to RNG.

[Angela]

Originally posted by BizarreMan:

Originally posted by Angela:

After reaching like L100 something I don't think any more scaling happens, if that's the question you're wanting answered.

So a L200 guy and a L150 guy of same build and gear and buffs has same numbers of bullets required to kill a mob at its own max level (like a super mutant warlord L100).

At that point it just comes down to RNG.

Well yeah, plus or minus the RNG chaos.

[VISION]

Best advice I got for you is to use a kevduit build for your main damage dealing char. His guides try to give you best combo of everything. And once u have that you'll have a better understanding of how to switch perks in a way that maximizes your damage when needed. I am level 85 rn but when i was lvl 53, i remember one shotting all enemies except bosses with my sniper build by kevduit and now i have a better understanding to build my own pepper shaker build

[Kaltharos]

Originally posted by Alt-Centrist Thinker:

Currently at lvl 56 and enjoying gunplay a lot but I'm starting to wonder about level scaling. Weapon levels max out at 50 but enemies continue leveling up after 50, scaling with your level. Does that mean enemies are going to be bullet spongy no matter what and you are forced to get weapon damage perks, in order to fight normal enemies?

I do like my bosses tanky, but not sure that I like the fact that normal enemies take 20 sniper bullets to the head (paraphrasing here, my weapons stats are not awful mind you). I understand a need for challenge but it feels odd that lower level players do more damage against enemies than you do (noticed this during coop playthrough). Why there is no lvl upgrades higher than 50?

Can someone explain this to me, addressing weapon level scaling compared to enemies levels scaling (apologies if my english is clumsy).

You need to focus your perk, with a focused perk, and other perks that'll be able to support your weapon, like sneak damage etc, most enemies will go down in 1 shot.
If you're liking sniper build, it will be tough for you for major boss fight, but that shouldn't stop you, I like sniper build myself, level 376 and still use sniper most of the time.

Your gear might stop growing at level 50, but your perks deck will keep on growing, not to mention your legendaries perk too, you'll get tougher, deal more damage through your perk, and eventually become indomitable, even when your enemy keep on scaling up.

When you wanna engage a big fight like earl or SBQ, just swap to another perk loadout and stats. It doesn't make sense that a sniper would be able to assist much in giant fight anyway, if you insist on using a sniper build on major boss fight, you'll probably only be able to assist in crippling the boss and cleaning up trash mobs.

Eventually after you've focused your perks for your sniper, like all the rifleman perk and tank killer perks, you'll want to try and search for a better legendary weapon, if you like 1-shooting mobs, I'd recommend Instigating Gauss Rifle, that's what I'm using and i can 1 shot level 100 super mutants in West Tek, without stealth too, just need to be sure that it's fully charged and the shot is a headshot.

Keep a back up weapon that can rapid fire like The Fixer or a combat rifle for when you lose stealth or caught unprepared, you'll want an Anti-Armor legendary weapon for this kind of weapon, also get used to VATS, it's really helpful for a rifleman build.

You won't have any issue mopping up everything in the map except bosses with a proper build.

Believe me, the balance in this game is broken, and it's not broken as in everything is a bullet sponge, it's broken as in everything is too easy eventually.... You don't even need a perfect build, just a proper one.

[s.turner3030]

Originally posted by Alt-Centrist Thinker:

I guess this should be expected with any RPG game, but it's bizarre that I have to ignore all other weapons (for example automatic weapons, because I invested in non-automatic pistols and rifles) and only focus on certain weapons in order to do decent damage, when in true survival situation, you would attempt to use anything you have in your arsenal.

That is unfortunate. I currently feel the balance is just right, you just have to be smart in gunfights. Would hate it that I have to play certain way in order survive just basic henchmen.

And like in a true survival situation some weapons are simply better than others at keeping you alive.

[FormerFishFarmer]

Both you and your Weapons are still advancing.
You're just following different paths.
There are still stronger weapons and armor available after 50.
You just switch to the "advanced" Gold Bullion gear.
Crusader Pistols, for instance.
Or Plasma Casters (really a Heavy Energy Sniper Rifle).
Then you enter the Legendary System.
You look for specific Legendary Effects on items, either finding, buying, or, now, crafting.
Better Legendary Effects on a better base item takes the place of just going up a couple of levels.
You also advance through the Perk System and the Legendary Perk System.
Regular Perks make your gear more powerful. Legendary Perks allow you to equip many, many more Regular Perks (and other cool stuff, but mostly increasing your SPECIAL so you can equip more Perks).
Learning to make all of that work together is how you get back to one-shotting everything again.

[Klown Thinker :)]

Originally posted by Kaltharos:

Originally posted by Alt-Centrist Thinker:

Currently at lvl 56 and enjoying gunplay a lot but I'm starting to wonder about level scaling. Weapon levels max out at 50 but enemies continue leveling up after 50, scaling with your level. Does that mean enemies are going to be bullet spongy no matter what and you are forced to get weapon damage perks, in order to fight normal enemies?

I do like my bosses tanky, but not sure that I like the fact that normal enemies take 20 sniper bullets to the head (paraphrasing here, my weapons stats are not awful mind you). I understand a need for challenge but it feels odd that lower level players do more damage against enemies than you do (noticed this during coop playthrough). Why there is no lvl upgrades higher than 50?

Can someone explain this to me, addressing weapon level scaling compared to enemies levels scaling (apologies if my english is clumsy).

You need to focus your perk, with a focused perk, and other perks that'll be able to support your weapon, like sneak damage etc, most enemies will go down in 1 shot.
If you're liking sniper build, it will be tough for you for major boss fight, but that shouldn't stop you, I like sniper build myself, level 376 and still use sniper most of the time.

Your gear might stop growing at level 50, but your perks deck will keep on growing, not to mention your legendaries perk too, you'll get tougher, deal more damage through your perk, and eventually become indomitable, even when your enemy keep on scaling up.

When you wanna engage a big fight like earl or SBQ, just swap to another perk loadout and stats. It doesn't make sense that a sniper would be able to assist much in giant fight anyway, if you insist on using a sniper build on major boss fight, you'll probably only be able to assist in crippling the boss and cleaning up trash mobs.

Eventually after you've focused your perks for your sniper, like all the rifleman perk and tank killer perks, you'll want to try and search for a better legendary weapon, if you like 1-shooting mobs, I'd recommend Instigating Gauss Rifle, that's what I'm using and i can 1 shot level 100 super mutants in West Tek, without stealth too, just need to be sure that it's fully charged and the shot is a headshot.

Keep a back up weapon that can rapid fire like The Fixer or a combat rifle for when you lose stealth or caught unprepared, you'll want an Anti-Armor legendary weapon for this kind of weapon, also get used to VATS, it's really helpful for a rifleman build.

You won't have any issue mopping up everything in the map except bosses with a proper build.

Believe me, the balance in this game is broken, and it's not broken as in everything is a bullet sponge, it's broken as in everything is too easy eventually.... You don't even need a perfect build, just a proper one.

Well, it's first playthrough so I am unsure whether my build is good; usually you can't expect someone like that to come up with a perfect build on 1st playthrough, when number 1 priority is fun and exploration. But regardless, while I was gaining special points, I went with high perception (higher vats hit chance and lockpicking), intelligence (better gun parts and less gun/armor deteriorating), agility (sneak and more actions points) and luck (more crits and better luck with scavenging)
Not so much on strength (a little bit for carry capacity), endurance (not so essential if long range and have enough cures for disease) and charisma (mainly for that one perk that gives me better prices from npc vendors)
I am not trying to rely on one or two guns, because otherwise I have to keep fixing them and can run out of ammo. I do like having tesla rifle as my back up, since at this point, it does good damage against most enemies and consumes less energy cells than I would using any laser rifle (when comparing ammo usage and damage-per-shot). Also, I did find a gauss rifle, so I might use that, once I find enough ammo.

I am using VATS and it saved me more times than I could count. Most of the time I can hit the target, even cripple their limbs.
I can't remember all the perks by name, but I guess I could put crafting perks to my 2nd perk loadout.

I should say that currently have no trouble but I was getting worried it would be like Borderlands 2, where you HAVE TO use slag weapons, in order to survive Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode and beyond. I hate it when there is only one or two ways to play the game, when most games are fun when you can experiment, but its obviously more difficult with MMO's where you can't load your previous save. Once a decision is done, its set in stone. From 1-50 lvl progression felt natural and fair, enemies get tougher and better gear, but so do you; and its constant competition, one side trying to out surpass the other.

We'll see what happens next.