Level scaling is garbage

[GuessWho?]

I love dealing with a level 47 in a level f****** 15 Zone! Such a fun experience. Keep the high-level f****** enemies in the high-level areas! Jesus christ

[GuessWho?]

Publicado originalmente por Mike "DieCast" James:

you are running around a world with enemies all over with no ammo and broken weapons trying to scav screws? sounds like a YOU problem not a game problem seems thousands of players for over a year have managed to deal with the ins and outs of this game at all levels....
you will to or give up playign and find an easier game to play...*shrugs* fallout 76 isnt for everyone..obviously or it would have more lag then it already does on the servers.

I didn't want to end up in this situation! Usually I will load up a pipe weapon to scavange but pumping 200+ .38 rounds in to a high level enemy does nothing for my situation.

The high level enemy is still spawning in an area that should clearly not have an enemy of this level. What is the point of having a level 50+ mixed in with level 9's?

I'm obviously not gonna give up I'm level 40 and this experience has only happened once in a blue moon due to my own negligence. But my point was I would like it to be easier to farm required materials in a low level area without fear of running into a challenge. Every other MMO if im in a low level area there are low level enemies that match the area they are in.

[Serath]

If you're talking about level 15 and you're in Savage Divide, that's the bare minimum.

https://d2skuhm0vrry40.cloudfront.net/2018/articles/2018-11-18-17-11/fallout_76_level_zones_map.jpg/EG11/resize/690x-1/quality/75/format/jpg

[GuessWho?]

Publicado originalmente por Serath:

If you're talking about level 15 and you're in Savage Divide, that's the bare minimum.

https://d2skuhm0vrry40.cloudfront.net/2018/articles/2018-11-18-17-11/fallout_76_level_zones_map.jpg/EG11/resize/690x-1/quality/75/format/jpg

I was on the boarder of Forest and Ash Heap so even by that level map the max level should have only been 35 not 47.

[SolusiRadikal]

Publicado originalmente por NaliWarcow:

if you're spotted, thjey should be able to get to you, just like in Skyrim. FO76 pathfinding for anyone standing on the roof of a damn car is using an exploit.

1. Ghoul and any other animal can still hit you if jump onto a car, you need to find a higher place
2. It's called mutation or jetpack not an exploit

Also melee build exist and it hit way harder than gun due to scaling with STR+Perk+legendary trait.

[LWRabbit]

Publicado originalmente por SolusiRadikal:

Also melee build exist and it hit way harder than gun due to scaling with STR+Perk+legendary trait.

Heck, yeah. I'm playing a melee build (which I never do in Fallout - always been a sneaky sniper) and it is a lot of fun, but way more powerful than I thought.

I have Gladiator and Expert Gladiator perks maxed out, as well as Martial Artist. I have Serendipty maxed out too. As well as a lucky Legendary drop of a armor that auto-stims me if I drop below 25% health.

I can wade into a swarm of enemies and cut them to ribbons and they can easily knock down my health, but they find it VERY hard to kill me. Half their attacks miss, and by that time my auto-stim effect has recharged to go again.

At level 23 I took out three Lvl 47 enemies by myself with a modded ski-sword (for armor penetration). The only armor I had was Boiled Leather with a couple of pieces of painted Metal. I didn't plan the encounter - I got jumped after blacking out on Nukashine. But it was glorious.

The proper build makes all the difference.

[Roman Richter]

Is there any release time frame for this?

[Thimerasol]

Is leveling up from scratch in FO76 an ordeal? Yup. But if you've ever played STALKER, it won't seem unreasonable.

[Kerm]

Wait till your level 50 and you get slapped down by a assaultron

[spykerKonyn]

Publicado originalmente por GuessWho?:

Publicado originalmente por Mike "DieCast" James:

you are running around a world with enemies all over with no ammo and broken weapons trying to scav screws? sounds like a YOU problem not a game problem seems thousands of players for over a year have managed to deal with the ins and outs of this game at all levels....
you will to or give up playign and find an easier game to play...*shrugs* fallout 76 isnt for everyone..obviously or it would have more lag then it already does on the servers.

I didn't want to end up in this situation! Usually I will load up a pipe weapon to scavange but pumping 200+ .38 rounds in to a high level enemy does nothing for my situation.

The high level enemy is still spawning in an area that should clearly not have an enemy of this level. What is the point of having a level 50+ mixed in with level 9's?

I'm obviously not gonna give up I'm level 40 and this experience has only happened once in a blue moon due to my own negligence. But my point was I would like it to be easier to farm required materials in a low level area without fear of running into a challenge. Every other MMO if im in a low level area there are low level enemies that match the area they are in.

Do not engage enemies which are too high level. You will just waste resources. Just avoid and if you cannot, just jump server.

Think in solutions. Not problems.

[InevitableDemise]

then go back to the start Nub I wish for these encounters at lvl 8

[Serath]

Publicado originalmente por Snuffy:

It kills any sense of progression and it also removes the joy of ever being able to destroy enemies that used to destroy you. It's just a persistent flat-line. I want there to be danger and some enemies that could demolish me if I venture too far into unknown territory.

The old traditional way such as this I don't really like either. If Bethesda games are supposed to be about replayability and experiencing an open world, what's the point of venturing to those places if enemies will one-shot you? Pretty sure that's why they implemented the scaling in the first place.

At that point, it doesn't matter if the game is open world or not, the higher-level enemies are just basically a gating system and force you into the same linear path every time you play the game. It becomes no different than a classic console game where you start at the first happy forest level and play till the last volcano/fire whatever level.

The same goes for going backwards, if they're going to be making new quests for the earlier areas all the time I want to experience them, but I want them to be scaled to what I am NOW, not 8 months ago.

But as mentioned before, at the same time I don't want the level scaling to be too strict either and remove ALL sense of progression all together. (One Tamriel.) If One Wasteland were to just be an OPTIONAL mode (for those below level 50) that just has every zone 50-99, I'd be happy, considering 50 starts the point where the progression becomes horizontal and you can only get stronger vertically via consuming items or wearing certain equipment.

That way you still have the ability to dominate say level 70 enemies (if you got the right build) but still have a challenge against level 90 enemies no matter how well you deck yourself. Not knowing what level you will encounter anywhere will keep you on your toes. Maybe this time you will be able to pass this area because the enemies are your level or below, or maybe not because they're higher. Who knows, and that's what would make the game much more dynamic and less static.

[Serath]

Publicado originalmente por Snuffy:

I don't know, the way they described it in the panel it sounds like they will scale exactly to your level which would be the worst. I will hold my breath and hope it isn't like One Tamriel, but we will see.

Even though I didn't like One Tamriel and I know plenty of others didn't either, I think there was enough call for it to warrant the negative side effect of horizontal progression - because the player base was SO fractured between all the zones, starting areas, continents and phased quests. That's not the case here, there isn't all these reasons that they NEED to implement this. Sure there are some scaling issues, but I don't feel it needs a full Oblivion and One Tamriel overhaul.

Perhaps if they can do it in a way like you mention that won't totally kill progression and over-world danger, which is something else that One Tamriel killed, but we will see. It doesn't sound good from the panel.

Hope so. Currently the game has the basic idea, but the maximum level range for a whopping 1/3 of the map are just waaaaay too low for the amount of content the game has, (at least, in those areas) which is ever growing. When the game first came out and I started coming back to the beginning areas for the first time, I got excited when I started to see enemies my level. Then I saw that image I linked earlier and got disappointed.

I wouldn't mind if it was just how Fallout 4 did it. I don't think you could even see the level of enemies in that game yet they did get stronger. Maybe they won't even do it based on levels and instead on other variables you can't see.

One Tamriel like you said, it's a bit justified because that game has an ungodly amount of quests, so to have no reason to do them because you're already hit Vet status is a shame. But this game seems to focus on....repeatable quests and dailies.

Not that I mind those, (you're going to run out of main/one-time quests eventually) in fact it makes more sense in a game like this because the map is so darn small compared to an actual MMO, (albeit bigger than any Bethesda game I've ever played) it's just that they're so static in how they play out, and set to a single level range that they become boring and useless when you outgrow them level wise.

Thinking more positively, perhaps it won't be that bad? Unlike ESO or traditional MMO's, where you whack a dude with your sword slowly watching his health drain, any game that has heavy RPG elements that is also a real-time FPS tends to have very quick TTK (time to kill) rates. Really, the difference between killing a level 1 ghoul and a level 60ish ghoul is only a few more bullets, and for an action real-time shooter, that's how it should be. In a traditional MMO, this difference is usually a lot bigger.

I know it's odd to bring up a competitive FPS term in a largely PvE game, but it's because I'm comparing the difference between generic medieval fantasy MMO's with hundreds of skills and tens of classes to choose from to fight a single standard enemy in 5-10 seconds, to a game where your only attack strategies are "melee, shoot, throw grenade" and it takes less than 1-2 seconds to kill a single standard enemy.

Both games basically have two different ways of how combat paces, (ignoring the fact that one is swords/spells and the other is guns) so it's a factor I hope they consider.

[PureRok]

I don't know how old that image is, but it's wrong. I've recently run into enemies that were in their 20s, 40s, and even a few 50s in The Forest area on that map.

[Blackcompany]

Publicado originalmente por ¡¡'M A SNOWMANNNNN:

wait for One Appalachia updates

The game has been out for 18 months. "Wait for a fix" is unacceptable at this point.

Besides, enemy Time to Kill is ridiculous anyway.

[Blackcompany]

Publicado originalmente por Jack of All Trades:

You usually deal with ghouls by crippling their legs. In general, when you're facing any melee opponent, go for the their legs. Once they are crippled, you can kite them

That would be viable, if VATS slowed time. IT does not. And with the enemies absurd movement speed, they are usually on you before you can choose body parts.