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Fallout 76 > 総合掲示板 > トピックの詳細
TheAvPman 2020年4月14日 21時03分
Why are people so quick to forgive bethesda?
They screwed you guys over with fallout 76 again and again.
Don't believe me here is a list.
.Atomic shop in what "was" a 60$ game (20$ for blue armor!!!!!)
.They promised 16x the detail of fallout four (I just don't see it do you)
.Almost every update was one step foreward two steps back
.They made a new launcher just for that and forced people to buy it there so they got more money
.They had no NPC's and no good storytelling till now
.Anybody remember the canvas bag incident
.Bethesda be banned a huge supporter (He made map76) for testing and reporting a bug even they were allowed by the devs to do that sort of thing
.There was also that nuka dark rum and the moldy power armor helmets they sold
.Bethesda did almost nothing to stop cheaters (at one point people could steal your inventory just by looking at you
.This game had and still has way too many bugs even though it has been out for a while now
.Bethesda released fallout first instead of content that could actually be used to help the game
.Fallout first was broken in many ways
.They forgot to secure ownership of the website they linked for fallout first so we got this amazing page https://falloutfirst.com/

Lmk if I forgot anything....
Actually don't they done ♥♥♥♥ed up too many times to count.
最近の変更はTheAvPmanが行いました; 2020年4月18日 2時24分
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投稿主: BAITness:
At least it is a bit cleaner in here, now that one of those guys is gone. This topic really dragged out the trolls, but I am glad it has been left up.

The question asked in the OP is something I think is going to continue to become more and more relevant over time. It is becoming really common to release a garbage game far too early, grab some easy sales, and decide whether or not to fix it up later. No Man's Sky was the first game I played where the release was atrocious and it was fixed up later, and I did decide that trusting Hello Games was worth it at some point.

For me that point was the games third major update, Atlas Rises. At that point the game had three really good updates, they had fixed the performance problems, they had added features I had never expected the game to have in the first place, and they had delivered on most of what they had initially promised... but that was not why I decided to repurchase it.

I decided to buy it at that point because it was a unique experience that I had really wanted from the first time I saw it. I really enjoyed playing with that game, and Hello Games have continued to deliver great updates for it. I believe they are on their 10th major update at this point, and I just love that game (even though I am not frequently in the mood to play it).

With 76 I think it is just way too soon to be diving back in. I don't have a choice of course, since Bethesda denied everyone's refunds, but what we have here is the first real good update to the game. That is one good update to try and outweigh the crazy number of times they have tried to take advantage of the people interested in the game. It just is not enough.

On top of that, and a really big issue for me, is Bethesda's huge lack of results in fixing the performance problems. That should always be the top priority for a dev, but here it has been left unfixed for over 500 days (for the NMS comparison, at that point Hello Games had not only fixed their performance problems but had already released their third major update, and were a few months away from their fourth). I obviously don't expect much right now because the devs should be working from home - I am just saying it is really messed up that the performance not been fixed already.

I really like the idea of 76 (which is why I bought it in the first place), and really want it to get fixed - partially because I already spent money I can't get back, and partially because I really like the idea behind the game. It could be that unique experience for me like NMS was. But forgiving all the terrible greedy things Bethesda did in exchange for a single decent update? I can't believe how long this game has been out and how small the improvement is. This is not anywhere near a NMS style comeback yet, but at least with this update they have taken what could be their first step on a similar path. I don't think it is smart for anyone to be supporting them until they at least take the second, and fix the performance problems.
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THAC0 2020年4月21日 9時17分 
people still raging hardcore?
#1036
AscendedViking7 2020年4月21日 9時39分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
clambchowder の投稿を引用：
"They play the game if they like it."

People decide if they like something based on what good it looks.
That goes for any market.
Too many people judge on how good the advertisement for a game looks and uses that as a mark of how the game should be without seeing the actual gameplay.
When people do that don't know what the actual gameplay is like until it's too late. They would be most likely be wasting money, but they wouldn't if they waited to see gameplay and did research on the game if they actually like it or not.

"They play the game if they like it, and move on with their lives and do something else if they don't like it."

If they buy games based on their fake advertisement campaigns and not the actual gameplay, there's a big chance they would end up not liking it all. If they didn't like it at all, yes, they would do something else, but they would be massively dissapointed.
They should remember the game dissapointing them and learn something from that to get a product they would actually like, but the general public has really bad memory when it comes to these kinds of things.
In 2 weeks' time after being dissapointed by a game, they would be doing the same thing that they did buying the previous game and end up repeating the same mistake because of it. Over and over again.

It's the biggest problem in gaming nowadays. Judging by sight instead of how the actual product works. It's the reason why people shouldn't preorder.

Basically, I just took your post and blown it out of proportion. Yup. :P
You have a point, i'm not saying you dont. I'm saying people dont really care, they have disposable income and play what they want and then move on, the only people who get upset and go on crusade about are those who see other people having a blast but can't enjoy the game themselves.
I agree to an extent.
Consumers have a responsibility to let corporations know that they aren't successful without keeping the consumers priority #1 and they can absolutely destroy their business if they try anything funny, and have the right to demand a better product if the companies ever try to get the better of them.
If other consumers go on crusades in low-quality games' communities to make sure their voice gets heard by the corporations and it works, then it's a worthy sacrifice worth making.
In fact, all of the backlash that 76's awful launch directed towards Bethesda brought us Wastelanders.
As long as greedy publishers' know that they are scared of the consumer, that's a really good thing. :D
最近の変更はAscendedViking7が行いました; 2020年4月21日 9時42分
#1037
geck 2020年4月21日 9時47分 


ุ の投稿を引用：
Burx の投稿を引用：
Because clearly you are one sided and haven't pointed flaws out on people defending the game/Bethesda.

If you have no side, you don't play the game, nor care to convince someone, then you are talking out of your ass because you do not even know what is true concerning Bethesda or not. even if you have like 880 hours in Fallout 4 which may prove somethign else

Bethesda is, or was as I haven't checked in awhile, being sued because of the Fallout 76 launch. A class action lawsuit. That speaks volumes about ♥♥♥♥ ups.
Who cares ? People are enjoying the game, simple as that. Its not rocket science, and like i said before, if people enjoying a game makes your depression harder to get through, maybe you have some issues.


Homie, read up history because clearly you have stuff to learn. There is a reason why history is taught in school. And again ad homien arguments do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And and the op is talking about the company, not the game. You got to stop being misinformed dude and stop spouting ♥♥♥♥.
#1038
MortVent 2020年4月21日 9時50分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
Burx の投稿を引用：


Homie, read up history because clearly you have stuff to learn. There is a reason why history is taught in school. And again ad homien arguments do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And and the op is talking about the company, not the game. You got to stop being misinformed dude and stop spouting ♥♥♥♥.
What history have to do with people enjoying a game ? Are you delusional as well ?

Well ask him how familiar he is with Valve's history and actions... lol
#1039
AscendedViking7 2020年4月21日 9時53分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
clambchowder の投稿を引用：
I agree to an extent.
Consumers have a responsibility to let corporations know that they aren't successful without keeping the consumers priority #1 and they can absolutely destroy their business if they try anything funny, and have the right to demand a better product if the companies ever try to get the better of them.
If other consumers go on crusades in low-quality games' communities to make sure their voice gets heard by the corporations and it works, then it's a worthy sacrifice worth making.
As long as greedy publishers' know that they are scared of the consumer, that's a really good thing. :P

Yes capitalism is evil, boo-hoo. But you sure are excited for Cybercrunch 2077 right ?
Unregulated Capitalism is evil. Properly regulated Capitalism is good.
There has to be restrictions and protection on how corporations can exploit the consumer, or they will just end up doing that for more profit. It's only a matter of when.
There also needs to be protection for the employees to keep corporations from exploiting them too.
Sadly, the Gaming Industry isn't regulated. The only thing that is is the ESRB's rating system, but the ESRB is so damn corrupt to do anything competent since the ESRB is pretty much a "Knights of the Round Table" group but with greedy CEOs.
The Gaming Industry is the Wild West compared to other industries. Anything can happen, and when something does happen, it mainly involves screwing over the consumer.

I am excited for Cyberpunk 2077, but I'm waiting for reviews. If it's good, I'll wait for a massive discount, since there's no way I'm rewarding a company for excessive crunch.
I wasn't a fan of The Witcher III anyways. The combat and general gameplay in that game sucked.
最近の変更はAscendedViking7が行いました; 2020年4月21日 9時56分
#1040
geck 2020年4月21日 9時57分 
MortVent の投稿を引用：
ุ の投稿を引用：
What history have to do with people enjoying a game ? Are you delusional as well ?

Well ask him how familiar he is with Valve's history and actions... lol

Valve is not a squeaky clean company. Never denied that. But at the same time they helped pioneer online gaming as a whole with other companies. That same forum we are wasting time in is a result of what they did. There is an equation called risk-benefit. That applies here. Bethesda launcher and game launch provides proof of massive risk vs. the benefit, which is the game.

Valve, for all its DRM, anti-consumer practices, high fees, and 'renting' style of games, provides benefits that outweigh that, which is an achievement of its own. It has the ability to influence where games go without spending a dime like Epic Games.

Bethesda and its own launcher... that has more risks than benefits.
#1041
AscendedViking7 2020年4月21日 9時58分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
clambchowder の投稿を引用：
Unregulated Capitalism is evil. Capitalism is fine.
There has to be restrictions and protection on how corporations can exploit the consumer, or they will just end up doing that for more profit.
There also needs to be protection for the employees to keep corporations from exploiting them too.
Sadly, the Gaming Industry isn't regulated. The only thing that is is the ESRB's rating system, but the ESRB is so damn corrupt to do anything competent since the ESRB is pretty much a "Knights of the Round Table" group but with greedy CEOs.
The Gaming Industry is the Wild West compared to other industries. Anything can happen, and when something does happen, it mainly involves screwing over the consumer.

I am excited for Cyberpunk 2077, but I'm waiting for reviews. If it's good, I'll wait for a massive discount, since there's no way I'm rewarding a company for excessive crunch.
I wasn't a fan of The Witcher III anyways. The combat in that game sucked.
Tell our "history friend" over there that he supports Gearbox by playing Borderlands and he needs to research history of the said company. I'd suggest starting here : https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/gearbox-software-ceo-accused-contempt-latest-filing-1235064

Randy Pitchford was initially accused of harassment, taking a "secret" $12 million bonus and possessing a USB with "underage pornography" in a lawsuit by former Gearbox legal counsel Wade Callender in December.

Yep. Thats right.
Gearbox definitely sucks for sure.
#1042
geck 2020年4月21日 10時00分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
;4086396791263314071 の投稿を引用：

Well ask him how familiar he is with Valve's history and actions... lol
He probably doesnt know Valve's history, he also probably support Gearbox because he likes borderlands but doesnt know said history of Gearbox and their awful employment treatment and policies.

If you checked my games, I do not have Borderlands 3. I don't support Gearbox at all. So, putting words into peoples mouths is bad and makes you look stupid.

Borderlands 2, 1, GOTY, and Pre-, I got in a bundle for like 5 dollars mixed in with other things I actually wanted. I gave them some money yeah, but I surely did not support them massively with about 1 dollar.

Also, history is learned to prevent other mistakes. Like EA and Activision in this case.
最近の変更はgeckが行いました; 2020年4月21日 10時00分
#1043
MortVent 2020年4月21日 10時03分 
Burx の投稿を引用：
MortVent の投稿を引用：

Well ask him how familiar he is with Valve's history and actions... lol

Valve is not a squeaky clean company. Never denied that. But at the same time they helped pioneer online gaming as a whole with other companies. That same forum we are wasting time in is a result of what they did. There is an equation called risk-benefit. That applies here. Bethesda launcher and game launch provides proof of massive risk vs. the benefit, which is the game.

Valve, for all its DRM, anti-consumer practices, high fees, and 'renting' style of games, provides benefits that outweigh that, which is an achievement of its own. It has the ability to influence where games go without spending a dime like Epic Games.

Bethesda and its own launcher... that has more risks than benefits.

So your argument is that it doesn't matter as long as you get what you want.
#1044
MortVent 2020年4月21日 10時04分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
clambchowder の投稿を引用：
Gearbox definitely sucks for sure.

Lets be honest here, the only good gaming company is nintendo.

Not really, though they have been a lot better in the more modern years
#1045
AscendedViking7 2020年4月21日 10時06分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
clambchowder の投稿を引用：
Gearbox definitely sucks for sure.

Lets be honest here, the only good gaming company is nintendo.
I wouldn't say that. They have been pretty scummy in their own way. :/
#1046
MortVent 2020年4月21日 10時18分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
MortVent の投稿を引用：

Not really, though they have been a lot better in the more modern years

https://www.wired.com/2011/07/nintendo-satoru-iwata-pay-cut/ (2011)
https://kotaku.com/nintendo-boss-is-taking-a-huge-pay-cut-because-of-the-1511382834 (2014)

Cutting your own salary twice just so people dont lose their jobs. Which company did that again ?

Well that doesn't change them suing blockbuster over game rentals, or the various issues with content creators on youtube, sued over the game genie, and most recently the fact they had issues over not allowing the cancelling of pre-orders and doing refunds in their online stores.

And some might even cry over them partnering with Tencent for Chinese distribution

They are not so squeaky clean as people think.
#1047
fluxtorrent 2020年4月21日 10時20分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
MortVent の投稿を引用：

So your argument is that it doesn't matter as long as you get what you want.

The anti-consumer crusade only applies when he doesnt like the game.
Very much this for all the chucklemucks who spout that anticonsumer nonsense.
#1048
fluxtorrent 2020年4月21日 10時32分 
meh, not me. Most of them would fail their own test. Don't buy their games either lol.
#1049
TheAvPman 2020年4月21日 10時55分 
ุ の投稿を引用：
clambchowder の投稿を引用：
I agree to an extent.
Consumers have a responsibility to let corporations know that they aren't successful without keeping the consumers priority #1 and they can absolutely destroy their business if they try anything funny, and have the right to demand a better product if the companies ever try to get the better of them.
If other consumers go on crusades in low-quality games' communities to make sure their voice gets heard by the corporations and it works, then it's a worthy sacrifice worth making.
As long as greedy publishers' know that they are scared of the consumer, that's a really good thing. :P

Yes capitalism is evil, boo-hoo. But you sure are excited for Cybercrunch 2077 right ?

The difference between the two companies that you dont seem to understand is that while bethesda has been really anticonsumer while cdprojekt red has done close to nothing to ♥♥♥♥ the customer.

What do you have against people liking a cdprojeckt red game. Is it just because cdprojeck is popular so it's bad to like them? If so that is more childish than anything...
最近の変更はTheAvPmanが行いました; 2020年4月21日 10時57分
#1050
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Fallout 76 > 総合掲示板 > トピックの詳細
投稿日: 2020年4月14日 21時03分
投稿数: 1,499

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