Instalar Steam
iniciar sesión
|
idioma
简体中文 (Chino simplificado)
繁體中文 (Chino tradicional)
日本語 (Japonés)
한국어 (Coreano)
ไทย (Tailandés)
български (Búlgaro)
Čeština (Checo)
Dansk (Danés)
Deutsch (Alemán)
English (Inglés)
Español - España
Ελληνικά (Griego)
Français (Francés)
Italiano
Bahasa Indonesia (indonesio)
Magyar (Húngaro)
Nederlands (Holandés)
Norsk (Noruego)
Polski (Polaco)
Português (Portugués de Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portugués - Brasil)
Română (Rumano)
Русский (Ruso)
Suomi (Finés)
Svenska (Sueco)
Türkçe (Turco)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamita)
Українська (Ucraniano)
Informar de un error de traducción
Normas y directrices sobre discusión
Denunciar este mensaje
Speculation involving my understanding of the process: If UE requires every file to have the version number updated in it to operate properly, then Steam sees that every file is getting an update. It reads the file and copies it to create a backup, updates the file, verifies the file, and then deletes the backup.
Just looked at my Icarus directory and there were 27 PAK files each nearly 3GB that were most recently updated 12/14 - Last Thursday. So it seems to be an issue with how Unreal Engine requires those PAK files (likely all interconnected as a single archive) to remain updated together and how Steam requires each file update to be backed up and verified for each change. Again, my speculation.
Read carefully the threads in other games.
-------------------------
Update error
The game size 70 gigabytes, the update 500 megabytes. It takes 30 gigabytes to complete. WHERE IS THIS SIZE FROM. Due to the update, I can't play the game because I don't have 30 gigabytes of disk space for it.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/990080/discussions/0/3789254716321608002/
-----------------------------
28 GB
DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE A 28GB UPDATE AGAIN TODAY SECOND ONE IN A COUPLE DAYS
https://steamcommunity.com/app/990080/discussions/0/3773490215227331723/
--------------------------
could be but i don't remember those long updating times whit ARK and the forth and back copy of the data
I can't tell you why its just icarus, as mentioned bevor whit AOE 2 and AOE 4 there isn't those long waiting times while updating and if i look on the TBW i can assure you that those games didn't got copy forth and back like icarus does.
Great, but I don’t play these games and so I don’t know what’s going on there. In addition, we are on the Icarus forum.
I provided the links above only as confirmation that the Steam Client updates not only Icarus in this way. If necessary, you can find similar complaints in other games.
{if i look on the TBW i can assure you that those games didn't get copy left and back like icarus does.}
I wrote to you above about how Icarus is being updated step by step. I looked into this myself out of curiosity.
I remembered a Phrase from England "See it, say it, sort it"
Just a reply from the Steam Support
As much as I would like to help you with this, please note that this title was not developed by Valve, we here at Steam Support do not have the tools or insight to effectively address the issue you are experiencing. The devs are in charge for the game's update details as they are the ones that developed it.
We can only advice you to keep working with their official support as they will have more detailed information on how to troubleshoot issues with their game.
By the way, I gave you the example above with Hogwarts Legacy, which also runs on Unreal Engine 4. If necessary, you can independently go and see what is happening with the update of other games that run on this game engine. If you need it of course.
2) This answer, as usual, misses the most important thing: why the update process is going this way. The reference in the Support response to the game developers is inappropriate, since the update process is handled by the Steam Client.
3) Once upon a time, we had a big argument here about the reasons for such a long update, and I checked it myself because I thought that the reason was different, but it turned out that this was not the case.
Using the scheme described below, you or someone else can check everything yourself.
For example, you can take Procmon (Mark Russinovich) and some convenient file manager (Total Commander).
3.1) After launching the Icarus update on Steam, a message appears at the bottom of the Steam Client (loading 0 of 1), you can click on it to go to a separate menu where you can watch the process step by step. I hope you knew this.
3.2) For example, I have Icarus installed in the directory
x:\SteamGames\steamapps\common\Icarus\
After clicking in the Steam Client 'Update' in the folder (if my memory serves me correctly, I checked all this many months ago)
x:\SteamGames\steamapps\downloading\
a copy of the Icarus installation appears, but usually a little smaller in size (this takes a lot of time). You can keep track of all this through Procmon or, if you're nimble enough, through Total Commander.
After another copy of Icarus appears, if you quickly go to the Paks directory (of the new copy), you will see that 2 or 3 Paks files have changed their resolution (this is exactly what happened to me).
It is because of this that the new copy is always smaller in size.
3.3) Then a small patch is downloaded, usually several hundred MB in size. Changes are made to these Paks files (which had different permissions). It is as if torrent files are being downloaded (although this is a modification process).
All these changes can be monitored in parallel through Procmon and the Steam Client menu in order to compare what is happening.
3.4) After modification of these Paks files occurs, a full verification of the entire directory of the new installation in the folder is launched (this takes a very long time)
x:\SteamGames\steamapps\downloading\
3.5) After this process is completed, the original installation directory is deleted
x:\SteamGames\steamapps\common\Icarus\
and is replaced with the contents of the new installation directory
x:\SteamGames\steamapps\downloading\
That's all. You wrote above that you understand technical issues. It is very strange that you were not able to carry out all these checks yourself and see it all for yourself.
3.6) Therefore, if any questions arise about the update, all complaints about the operation of the Steam Client must be sent to Steam Support, including complaints about why they are avoiding direct answers.
4) Total: I draw your attention once again to the fact that all games based on the Unreal Engine, which is owned by Epic Corporation, which in turn is also the owner of another online store selling games, have similar problems with updates on the Steam platform. (do I need to add anything else here???)
I hadn't enough Information and started gathering them to narrow down the issue. As said i had 3 Games, 2 of them behave as i would expect the update process and one didn't.
Rekal also mentioned the Unreal part but as i hadn't enough information, it wasn't clear for me.
Thanks for sharing those information and those side jabs, therefore i don't need to invent the wheel again.
I also work whit Procmon to narrow down Application configuration in Registry and Filesystem.
For the complete conversation whit the Steam support - here are the last answers
Steam Support:
Please note, that an update can be very small, but might need to update a very large file, so it might look like the game is being redownloaded, but you're only downloading a small file relative to the actual size of the game.
Also, please note that Steam creates a second copy of a game's files and applies updates to the copies before rolling those files into the install folder. This is done to avoid needing to fully re-download the game in the event that the update applies incorrectly. As a result, updates on Steam can require a large amount of free space, sometimes double the amount of the game itself.
Additionally, our Update & Installation Issues article explains a bit more about some errors, including some basic steps that are likely to resolve it.
My Answer:
But why does every game behave differently? In regards to Icarus it writes 66 GB each time an update is released but if i update AOE2 or AOE4 there is just a small amount of written GB. Shouldn't all games behave the same way?
Also the update Process itself need way more time for Icarus and i didn't notice this behavior on other games. Can you put some light into this?
Steam Support:
We updated how the Steam UI displays installation information - nothing in the actual update process has changed. An update can be very small, but might need to update a very large file, so it might look like the game is being redownloaded, but you're only downloading a small file relative to the actual size of the game.
Also, please note that Steam creates a second copy of a game's files and applies updates to the copies before rolling those files into the install folder. This is done to avoid needing to fully re-download the game in the event that the update applies incorrectly. As a result, updates on Steam can require a large amount of free space, sometimes double the amount of the game itself.
Looks like a Small-Customer can't change anything.
Icarus Dev: Today we have a 30MB update that needs to be added to the game's data files.
Unreal Engine: Okay, that 30MB can be tucked into PAK #24 no problem, but since all the PAKs are linked we'll need to update each PAK's meta data so there is no confusion in our engine's data structure.
Steam Update: Hey guys! I see 27 different files have different hashes after this update, each file is ~3GB. I'm going to copy each file, apply the update, verify the update is good, delete the original files, and then readdress these updated files into the old directory. 60GB of new files, 60GB of files being updated, 60GB of files being verified, 60GB of old files being deleted, 60GB of files being readdressed.
That does seem a bit excessive, but I think it stems from the Unreal Engine's PAK structure which only exacerbates Steam's update procedure. Other games may not have the data structure that needs all the corresponding archive's meta data to match. If the AOE games update a 30MB file that isn't part of a data archive then all Steam does is 30MB new copy, 30MB update, 30MB verify, 30MB delete, and 30MB readdress. That's going to be quite a bit faster than an Icarus update.
{Also, please note that Steam creates a second copy of a game's files and applies updates to the copies before rolling those files into the install folder. This is done to avoid needing to fully re-download the game in the event that the update applies incorrectly. As a result, updates on Steam can require a large amount of free space, sometimes double the amount of the game itself.}
In principle, they wrote exactly the same thing as I wrote above. They want updates to their platform to be 'fully validated'. This cannot be changed.
Here is some food for thought: what does it take to insert 1 byte in the middle of a 10GB file? Every software engineer knows insertions into vectors/arrays can be inefficient: it can require shuffling elements down a spot to open up a "hole" to insert your new data. It might require a whole new memory allocation to fit it. A file can be similar. You might need to bump 5GB of data to open up a spot to fit that one byte in the middle of the file. That's 5GB of writes for a 1 byte "patch". Or, copy the first 5GB to a new file, write your byte, then copy the last 5GB, whereupon you've now written 10GB to insert 1 byte.
Compare that to a 10MB file. Same patch size, but you only have to bump 5MB of data. Drastically different amount of data shuffled around for the same size patch.
Steam support says small patches on big files can cause lots of disk I/O. That sounds... pretty obvious to me. And it will vary by game because different games have different size files.
It would just replace specific parts of an install only. No huge massive updating of the whole install.
Except, it was garbage.
Because the updating process depended on the devs writing out an _extremely_ detailed manifest of changes. Specific changes, done one after another, in a specific order. Remove this folder (and everything in it), replace this folder. Replace one file only in a folder. and so and so on.
Except, many devs didn't keep a clear overall picture of a file structure. Their instructions would tell steam to add a folder/file/etc, but there might not be ANY instructions about removing an older version of the same files kept in a different (pre-update) file structure. Those files just got left there. If steam wasn't specifically told to remove things, they stayed.
They would delete a root folder, but forget there was a folder inside another folder full of file that needed to _stay_. Deleting the root folder, deleted everything underneath it. Poof, now super important files are gone, or the file structure got changed. Those files are still there, but the game can't find them where they're supposed to be. So when it needed to call on something that's supposed to be in that file... boom, crash.
Some dev teams were super meticulous about this process. No loose ends left, no accidental deletions, or file structure changes. They kept a clear list of all changes made while they coded on an update, and that was used to make the instructions for steam.
Other dev teams... well... they sucked. In between updates, stuff just sailed into the bermuda triangle. Not removed on purpose, just effectively removed because they forgot what the old structure was. They'd add an update, and then immediately follow it with like a dozen "hotfixes" as they found all the parts that caused the game to crash.
Overall, the new system used by steam is better. Much much better. Steam just isn't giving them a chance to be that flaky anymore. The update system now, and the verification process prevents this now.
Yeah that could be the difference and i thought that ARK has the same engine and i never noticed that on their game but i could be wrong.
@william_es sounds pretty good that steam changed the update process and i wouldn't complain if all games would do it the same way, probably then i hadn't noticed the difference.
If all games need to write the whole Game-Structure after an Update (think about Ark or similar Games whit 150 to 400 GByte Game size) this would need a lot time to do so.
Not all Players like me have good Hardware and a good Internet-Connection. I don't mind re downloading a game even if its 300 GB but others do.
So making something better should always be the goal. That is why i try to ask and dig into this whole thing. Still i will gather those Information about the TBW for different games.
I am satisfied whit your provided information and you're time spend whit my annoying questions - thank you.