Carabin

[Sa'no A'ras]

What's the point of having a carabiner if it can't withstand even one fight and breaks immediately? Or are you suggesting we carry several of them? Who's the idiot that designed the entire inventory, especially weapons, to break so quickly?

[william_es]

There are talents to increase the durability of the weapon.

Also please remember this is a gun you MADE YOURSELF, firing homemade ammunition. Be grateful it even fires at all. You're not going to get the same kind of quality from a specialized gun manufacturer with a production line set up to make millions and millions of them.

[Spaceminnow]

You may want to read this...

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1149460/discussions/0/4033600364205929517/

Your thread post may be very close to the edge...

You may discuss the "carbine"...
You may suggest improvements...
Don't aim the "carbine" at anyone on the forum...

[Rekal]

Why would you need to fire the gun so many times in one fight that it degrades and falls apart? This seems like a "git gud" comment is appropriate. Hitting headshots reduces bullet usage and thus gun wear. There's no special bullet spread mechanic reducing accuracy right? Aim better.

[DrLamp]

Spaceminnow is right, you might want to reword your post OP. The CEO of Rocketwerkz will not look lightly on a perceived attack toward their staff.

[Lyote]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Spaceminnow is right, you might want to reword your post OP. The CEO of Rocketwerkz will not look lightly on a perceived attack toward their staff.

Honestly and without malice, The devs have done some incredibly dumb things and deserve to be called out for it.

Right off the top of my head is the workshop. Specifically, the Environment Suits.
The first suit you research makes sense. But why the heck does it then branch to 2 *identical* suits with different names?
Following, the one option you have before it branches again is objectively better than the next one you need to research to continue progressing towards the last suit.
Identical stats, but with the addition of physical resist... For the same crafting cost. Why would anyone even consider wasting ren on making that inferior one? Feels like it exists just drain ren from your wallet for no benefit.

Armor in the workshop has a similar problem. The armors are generally useful for different scenarios and not a specific "upgrade" over the previous one.
Yet you are forced to buy the helmet (with each piece needing to be researched individually ...) in progressive order to access the other ones.
They're all sidegrades, So why the heck must we unlock them in progressive order?

The tech tree also is an absolute mess, Many things could be condensed into single nodes (The search function is a joke too).
The Talent trees having duplicated talents from other trees also makes no sense. Streamline that, replace them with talents that actually make sense for that tree.

To bring it back around to the OPs complaint, The Carbine does not have a dedicated talent tree.
The Pistol talents do not mention it, to my knowledge nor do the Rifle ones.
So if they DO affect the Carbine, The devs need to correct the Talent descriptions to include them.
Or maybe add carbine specific talents, Since its not a rifle OR a pistol.
The addition of that gun was incredibly sloppy.
Is it a rifle? It uses Rifle attachments.
Is it a pistol? It uses Pistol ammo.
WHAT. IS. IT.
The generic "firearm durability" obviously works with it, But does it work off Rifle talents for damage and reload or Pistol talents for same?

While i applaud them the dedication and hard work for delivering weekly patches since its launch, They absolutely need to take a step back and fix some of the messes that have been left in the wake of those updates.

[Remedial Tester]

Originally posted by Lyote:

Or maybe add carbine specific talents, Since its not a rifle OR a pistol.
The addition of that gun was incredibly sloppy.
Is it a rifle? It uses Rifle attachments.
Is it a pistol? It uses Pistol ammo.
WHAT. IS. IT.
The generic "firearm durability" obviously works with it, But does it work off Rifle talents for damage and reload or Pistol talents for same?

Just for yours, and future clarification for anyone else reading this. The carbine is a Rifle, the game's code has "Weapon_Firearm_Rifle" as it's class. And is likely a holdover when it was originally planned as a assault rifle.

[SIRSAM]

I'm gonna do some science and figure out whats going on here.
use the gun with no perks, use the gun with max durability perks, use the gun with max weapon damage, use the gun with 50/50 durability/damage, and use the weapon with each of those parameters on all difficulties.

[DrLamp]

Originally posted by Lyote:

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Spaceminnow is right, you might want to reword your post OP. The CEO of Rocketwerkz will not look lightly on a perceived attack toward their staff.

Honestly and without malice, The devs have done some incredibly dumb things and deserve to be called out for it.

Hey that's fine. The problem is the way they said it. When they say "Who's the idiot that designed the entire inventory", they are calling one of the devs an idiot. People have been banned for that. See the below post from the head of the studio.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1149460/discussions/0/4033600364205929517/

He's required by law in New Zealand to protect his employees.

[Spaceminnow]

Go ahead...
"We" all know what may happen...
At least you've been made aware of the "edge"...

The forum is fun :)
However,
Keep the "edge" in mind while "dancing"...

https://youtu.be/QuaojjCV1Tk

Don't allow the "dance" to lead you over the edge...

[Lyote]

Originally posted by Remedial Tester:

Originally posted by Lyote:

Or maybe add carbine specific talents, Since its not a rifle OR a pistol.
The addition of that gun was incredibly sloppy.
Is it a rifle? It uses Rifle attachments.
Is it a pistol? It uses Pistol ammo.
WHAT. IS. IT.
The generic "firearm durability" obviously works with it, But does it work off Rifle talents for damage and reload or Pistol talents for same?

Just for yours, and future clarification for anyone else reading this. The carbine is a Rifle, the game's code has "Weapon_Firearm_Rifle" as it's class. And is likely a holdover when it was originally planned as a assault rifle.

Thats cool to know, But the problem as i stated is that the devs are being sloppy.

They've created problems that should have been been noted in very early development for the weapon.
The first obvious one is the lack of any kind of clear classification for the weapon in-game.

The second obvious one is in the talents themselves, description aside. It uses Rifle talents (As you point out) but requires you spend limited talent points into Pistols to get access to the crafting benefits of Pistol ammo if you want to use it properly.
Then in the tech tree you need spend points on unlocking Pistol ammo .. For what is ostensibly, a Rifle per the implementation.

I do understand that they chose to make it use Pistol ammo because Rifle ammo would have been OP.
However, The better solution would have been to assign it to the Pistol category as an SMG style gun. Or even just another category of ammo unlocked with the Rifle ammo that the Carbine could use to achieve the same result as having it use Pistol ammo.

As i said above, They deserve praise for the dedication to weekly patch content.
But they really need to stop for a moment and take some time to straighten out the spaghetti implementation of past updates.

I would be ecstatic if the CEO said they were pausing brand new content for a few weeks to do a quality pass over everything they've done so far.

[william_es]

Originally posted by Lyote:

Specifically, the Environment Suits.
...
Why would anyone even consider wasting ren on making that inferior one? Feels like it exists just drain ren from your wallet for no benefit.

The environment suits used to be in a completely different order when the game launched. The current order has suits that used to unlock later on in the chain moved to before their (old) predecessors. You're right it doesn't make any sense now.

And even before the rearrangement, a lot of the suits were pointless, and just served as stepping stones to get later suits. So I totally agree with you on that.

Right now, the Hark suit is the best sweet spot, and the only reason to go past that at all is to get the two red exotic suits, the Haulier and the Bulwark. Unless you want to get the red exotics, just stop at the hark.

Originally posted by Lyote:

Armor in the workshop has a similar problem. The armors are generally useful for different scenarios and not a specific "upgrade" over the previous one.
Yet you are forced to buy the helmet (with each piece needing to be researched individually ...) in progressive order to access the other ones.
They're all sidegrades, So why the heck must we unlock them in progressive order?

Well, in the beginning there was only one armor set, the naneo. The others were added 1 at a time, and people like me just snapped up each armor set as they came out. The current layout shows a single line that splits and leads to all 4 sets. I already have them all unlocked with the exception of the larkwell armor, so I can't see if it forces you to buy them in that order from left to right.

Originally posted by Lyote:

The Talent trees having duplicated talents from other trees also makes no sense. Streamline that, replace them with talents that actually make sense for that tree.

Some talents are duplicated, because in order to reach the higher grades of talents in that tree, you must invest a certain number of points total. Having duplicates means you can get that talents while spending towards unlocking the higher grade talents in that tree. You don't have to spread points out across two trees.

Originally posted by Lyote:

Is it a rifle? It uses Rifle attachments.
Is it a pistol? It uses Pistol ammo.
WHAT. IS. IT.

The "carbine" was meant to be a rifle. Early on it was teased as an "assault rifle". Pretty much a straight upgrade to the single shot 6 magazine rifle we had before. But during testing they found out that it was simply too powerful when firing rifle ammo. Which I can firmly believe. I have a few points invested in rifle talents, and I routinely hit on head shots for tens of thousands of damage. A 20 shot rifle would be nuts.

[Lyote]

Originally posted by william_es:

Originally posted by Lyote:

Specifically, the Environment Suits.
...
Why would anyone even consider wasting ren on making that inferior one? Feels like it exists just drain ren from your wallet for no benefit.

The environment suits used to be in a completely different order when the game launched. The current order has suits that used to unlock later on in the chain moved to before their (old) predecessors. You're right it doesn't make any sense now.

And even before the rearrangement, a lot of the suits were pointless, and just served as stepping stones to get later suits. So I totally agree with you on that.

Right now, the Hark suit is the best sweet spot, and the only reason to go past that at all is to get the two red exotic suits, the Haulier and the Bulwark. Unless you want to get the red exotics, just stop at the hark.

Originally posted by Lyote:

Armor in the workshop has a similar problem. The armors are generally useful for different scenarios and not a specific "upgrade" over the previous one.
Yet you are forced to buy the helmet (with each piece needing to be researched individually ...) in progressive order to access the other ones.
They're all sidegrades, So why the heck must we unlock them in progressive order?

Well, in the beginning there was only one armor set, the naneo. The others were added 1 at a time, and people like me just snapped up each armor set as they came out. The current layout shows a single line that splits and leads to all 4 sets. I already have them all unlocked with the exception of the larkwell armor, so I can't see if it forces you to buy them in that order from left to right.

Originally posted by Lyote:

The Talent trees having duplicated talents from other trees also makes no sense. Streamline that, replace them with talents that actually make sense for that tree.

Some talents are duplicated, because in order to reach the higher grades of talents in that tree, you must invest a certain number of points total. Having duplicates means you can get that talents while spending towards unlocking the higher grade talents in that tree. You don't have to spread points out across two trees.

Originally posted by Lyote:

Is it a rifle? It uses Rifle attachments.
Is it a pistol? It uses Pistol ammo.
WHAT. IS. IT.

The "carbine" was meant to be a rifle. Early on it was teased as an "assault rifle". Pretty much a straight upgrade to the single shot 6 magazine rifle we had before. But during testing they found out that it was simply too powerful when firing rifle ammo. Which I can firmly believe. I have a few points invested in rifle talents, and I routinely hit on head shots for tens of thousands of damage. A 20 shot rifle would be nuts.

You're giving even more reason for my belief that the devs badly need to stop pushing brand new content and do a pass over existing content.
The enviro suit issue is baffling that theyve never addressed it before now.

I can see why vets wouldnt notice the progressive unlocks for armor, WHich goes a ways towards explaining why it works this way.
It really should just be a vertical list and you pick a line at your leisure. Especially since they're all sidegrades to one another.

The duplicated talents I'm referring to are ones like the Stamina Regen ones.
The exact same talent, with the same name and effect appears in multiple talent trees.
Talents dealing Stamina, Health and their regen speeds could and probably should be consolidated into a tree dedicated to that theme.
That would leave room in those trees for more impactful talents themed to that particular talent tree.
Just again, feels weird to have to spend points in things you dont particularly need just push deeper into the tree. If you need us to spend points in the tree, Make each of those choices meaningful.
Though a lot of capstone talents just shouldnt be that deep in the tree. Example being the double resources from skinning juvenile animals.
Thats a weak talent to require so much prior investment to access.

On Rifles, I cannot mirror your experience lol, My 6 shot rifle with the talents and T2 damage mod still was only critting headshots for about 1500~
The only talent I'm missing for Rifle damage is the crit multiplier. I'm guessing thats what takes the damage into insane levels?

And yeah, I am familiar with the dev history for the carbine. I understand the thought behind it using pistol ammo, But they implemented it poorly with how the game actually works lol

It just irks me seeing so many baffling things in Tech, Talent and Workshop progression.
The game would benefit immensely from the devs sitting down and doing a clean sweep to fix legacy issues. Like they recently did with the mission board. That change was great.
Would love to see them apply that to everything else, lol.

[Spaceminnow]

Originally posted by Lyote:

You're giving even more reason for my belief that the devs badly need to stop pushing brand new content and do a pass over existing content.

What are you trying to do...? o0
Are you trying to show us your skill on how to "roast" marsh mellows...?
Without burning "them"...?

https://youtu.be/i5QvvnETZ7c

[Sa'no A'ras]

Originally posted by william_es:

There are talents to increase the durability of the weapon.

Also please remember this is a gun you MADE YOURSELF, firing homemade ammunition. Be grateful it even fires at all. You're not going to get the same kind of quality from a specialized gun manufacturer with a production line set up to make millions and millions of them.

Yes, I made it MYSELF, BUT on a high-precision machine, and its main material was TITANIUM, not ordinary copper, but TITANIUM. I'm supposed to dig trenches with it, hammer nails, and use it as a lever to pull a car out of the mud, and after all that, it should be passed down to my descendants in the same condition I made it. And here I fired five rounds, and it already needs to be thrown away!

[Sa'no A'ras]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Originally posted by Lyote:

Honestly and without malice, The devs have done some incredibly dumb things and deserve to be called out for it.

Hey that's fine. The problem is the way they said it. When they say "Who's the idiot that designed the entire inventory", they are calling one of the devs an idiot. People have been banned for that. See the below post from the head of the studio.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1149460/discussions/0/4033600364205929517/

He's required by law in New Zealand to protect his employees.

I'm not trying to kill them here, I REALLY doubt their intelligence.