Icarus is not a survival game, it's a "Fainting simulator"

[morgezuma]

First, I want to say clearly that players who would rather re-spawn than see a "game over" screen should have that option and enjoy games in that way.

There are plenty of games that offer BOTH re-spawning and permadeath as well as very casual settings and hard core settings. Examples: Green Hell, The Long Dark, Subnautica, and many many more.

I tried this game for a free weekend and found that (for me), this isn't survival at all (since it's impossible to not survive). What they've made is a Fainting Sim. The worst thing that happens is "Oops, I fainted again, then I wake up and oh look, invisible space elves have cleaned, organized, and packaged all my stuff for me."

I love it that this style of game pleases a certain kind of player. More power to them. For the rest of us, please let us click an option to turn off immortality mode.

In a survival game, surviving another day is a victory. In Icarus, it's a guarantee. Yuk.

Uninstalled. And if I had paid for it: refunded.

[КрендельФигов]

Everyone has their own ideas about the survival game and the required complexity of the gameplay. Personally, for example, in principle, I am not satisfied with any form of permanent death (which, by the way, was here),
because I built my castle for about six months and more than 1000 hours (I have everything ‘packed’ inside)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3043325163
not at all in order to simply lose it for any reason.

For hardcore settings, you just need to go to the desert on medium difficulty, or better yet, to the Arctic at night, and even during a storm, to “visit” polar bears and scorpions (you’ve been there, right?). That's where the hardcore will be.

[Player Zer01]

not all survival games have permadeath from the start. people that like to play that way often have to do the remake their character upon death. hell it took 7d2d YEARS before they added a permadeath feature. modders added one way before the devs did.

Originally posted by КрендельФигов:

Everyone has their own ideas about the survival game and the required complexity of the gameplay. Personally, for example, in principle, I am not satisfied with any form of permanent death (which, by the way, was here),
because I built my castle for about six months and more than 1000 hours (I have everything ‘packed’ inside)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3043325163
not at all in order to simply lose it for any reason.

For hardcore settings, you just need to go to the desert on medium difficulty, or better yet, to the Arctic at night, and even during a storm, to “visit” polar bears and scorpions (you’ve been there, right?). That's where the hardcore will be.

and as usual you missed what the OP is talking about....

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by КрендельФигов:

Everyone has their own ideas about the survival game and the required complexity of the gameplay.

Which is why I asked that the Devs include options that please a range of players, not just one kind. Such as had been done in Green Death, The long Dark, etc.

Originally posted by КрендельФигов:

For hardcore settings, you just need to go to the desert on medium difficulty, or better yet, to the Arctic at night, and even during a storm, to “visit” polar bears and scorpions (you’ve been there, right?). That's where the hardcore will be..

No. You might as well ask me to jump off a cliff and try my best to build wings on the way down. I didn't ask for harder settings. I asked for setting which enable survival modes wherein you "meet your needs or die". Currently, they only have settings for "meet your needs or faint".

The first thing I said in my post is that I know some players like to play the respawn game rather than struggle to meet needs in order to survive. Currently, this game only offers players the chance to "meet needs or faint". That is very limited. Although it's perfect for you, it's not perfect for me.

So I advise Devs that many survival games offer casual play like Icarus does, but ALSO offer settings that make the meeting of needs a requirement, not an option.

It can't hurt to allow settings for those who want them. And while you are happy with a experience labelled as "survival" despite it being impossible to die, other players want to experience the thrill of avoiding death and the dreaded "game over" screen. We all can be happy if the Devs go back to game design school.

[КрендельФигов]

Originally posted by Player Zer01:

and as usual you missed what the OP is talking about....

No, you missed the point of what I wrote, especially in the part that permadeath actually already existed before,
however, it received nothing but a negative response, so it was removed.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by КрендельФигов:

Originally posted by Player Zer01:

and as usual you missed what the OP is talking about....

No, you missed the point of what I wrote, especially in the part that permadeath actually already existed before,
however, it received nothing but a negative response, so it was removed.

They removed a permadeath OPTION? That's weird. I could understand removing permadeath (even in a survival game) for players that prefer respawning. But to remove an option seems like programmers working hard just to make sure only one kind of player has fun.

[TheHellKat]

Hardcore used to be perma death, some missions could only be run in hardcore.

It was not liked.

That being said, having a 4th difficulty option for those who want perma death sounds like a feasible option.

Honestly though I don't see many people taking their max characters into a perma death mission.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by TheHellKat:

Honestly though I don't see many people taking their max characters into a perma death mission.

Yeah, those max characters are an incredible achievement of grinding and should not get anywhere near the kind of risks one might face during a struggle to survive an alien hellscape.

Icarus has already masted the art of offering Legos building blocks to players that just want to dress up their doll and build a fancy dollhouse. Mission accomplished. We can keep this and easily add options for different kinds of play.

Of course you understand this thread is about offering survival risks to players who want a sim featuring the struggle to survive. Icarus from the start was sold as a struggle to survive, and it's not what it claims to be. It is listed as a survival game, and it would be easy to allow players to choose settings that would actually make it a struggle to survive. And most importantly, since we're all here to have fun, it seems reasonable to offer settings for ALL kinds of players. Green Hell does it, The Long Dark does it, Frost Punk, Subnautica, Planet Crafter, and many more all do it. It's not hard.

[КрендельФигов]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Originally posted by TheHellKat:

Honestly though I don't see many people taking their max characters into a perma death mission.

Yeah, those max characters are an incredible achievement of grinding and should not get anywhere near the kind of risks one might face during a struggle to survive an alien hellscape.

Icarus has already masted the art of offering Legos building blocks to players that just want to dress up their doll and build a fancy dollhouse. Mission accomplished. We can keep this and easily add options for different kinds of play.

Of course you understand this thread is about offering survival risks to players who want a sim featuring the struggle to survive. Icarus from the start was sold as a struggle to survive, and it's not what it claims to be. It is listed as a survival game, and it would be easy to allow players to choose settings that would actually make it a struggle to survive. And most importantly, since we're all here to have fun, it seems reasonable to offer settings for ALL kinds of players. Green Hell does it, The Long Dark does it, Frost Punk, Subnautica, Planet Crafter, and many more all do it. It's not hard.

If you don't like 'dollhouse' games, then you have a choice.
Permadeath is a 'Hardcore games' mechanism, not a Survive genre, so its presence is not required.

[TheHellKat]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Originally posted by TheHellKat:

Honestly though I don't see many people taking their max characters into a perma death mission.

Yeah, those max characters are an incredible achievement of grinding and should not get anywhere near the kind of risks one might face during a struggle to survive an alien hellscape.

Icarus has already masted the art of offering Legos building blocks to players that just want to dress up their doll and build a fancy dollhouse. Mission accomplished. We can keep this and easily add options for different kinds of play.

Of course you understand this thread is about offering survival risks to players who want a sim featuring the struggle to survive. Icarus from the start was sold as a struggle to survive, and it's not what it claims to be. It is listed as a survival game, and it would be easy to allow players to choose settings that would actually make it a struggle to survive. And most importantly, since we're all here to have fun, it seems reasonable to offer settings for ALL kinds of players. Green Hell does it, The Long Dark does it, Frost Punk, Subnautica, Planet Crafter, and many more all do it. It's not hard.

Why did you crop my post and ignore the part about agreeing that a 4th difficulty option was a viable solution just to berate me for liking the game as is?

[Das Trojanische Pferd]

ow so like every survival game ever? There is almost no survival game where you lose your charakter except for dedicated Hardcore modes and icarus does offer a hardcore mode so try your luck. The only game that has charakter permadeath as default i can think of is Projekt zomboid

[Spaceminnow]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

First, I want to say clearly that players who would rather re-spawn than see a "game over" screen should have that option and enjoy games in that way.

There are plenty of games that offer BOTH re-spawning and permadeath as well as very casual settings and hard core settings. Examples: Green Hell, The Long Dark, Subnautica, and many many more.

I tried this game for a free weekend and found that (for me), this isn't survival at all (since it's impossible to not survive). What they've made is a Fainting Sim. The worst thing that happens is "Oops, I fainted again, then I wake up and oh look, invisible space elves have cleaned, organized, and packaged all my stuff for me."

I love it that this style of game pleases a certain kind of player. More power to them. For the rest of us, please let us click an option to turn off immortality mode.

In a survival game, surviving another day is a victory. In Icarus, it's a guarantee. Yuk.

Uninstalled. And if I had paid for it: refunded.

There are many ways to play this game...
You can design your own difficulties.
Explore the talent trees and decide which talents are needed while others may be considered a "luxury"...

It is possible to play this game with your own personal play rules (PPR) that can make the game more challenging for yourself...

Some PPR ideas:
Hunt only with knives...
Hunt only at night...
Carry limited ammo (Quivers 24 arrows, max bullets 25)
Eat only veggies...
Eat only bread...
Do not place oxite rocks in the suit... make "oxidizers"
If you catch an ailment; stop what you are doing; find shelter and wait for the ailment to pass...

In your case, one of your PPR may be:
If your character dies...delete it.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Troja:

ow so like every survival game ever? There is almost no survival game where you lose your charakter except for dedicated Hardcore modes and icarus does offer a hardcore mode so try your luck. The only game that has charakter permadeath as default i can think of is Projekt zomboid

I don't suggest permadeath as default. I suggest it should be an option. You said it IS in option? Why can't I find it in the settings?

[Dreaguh]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Originally posted by Troja:

ow so like every survival game ever? There is almost no survival game where you lose your charakter except for dedicated Hardcore modes and icarus does offer a hardcore mode so try your luck. The only game that has charakter permadeath as default i can think of is Projekt zomboid

I don't suggest permadeath as default. I suggest it should be an option. You said it IS in option? Why can't I find it in the settings?

When you choose your prospect, there will be options for easy normal and hard, below that is hard core. You can choose what sort of game play you want per mission.

[morgezuma]

Originally posted by Dreaguh:

Originally posted by morgezuma:

I don't suggest permadeath as default. I suggest it should be an option. You said it IS in option? Why can't I find it in the settings?

When you choose your prospect, there will be options for easy normal and hard, below that is hard core. You can choose what sort of game play you want per mission.

Thanks for the info, I looked into it, that setting isn't available in the open world mode, but I tried it in the Outpost mode and it turns out that you can only faint in what they call "Extreme" mode. So there is no mode and no setting of any kind that will allow Icarus present itself as "a struggle to survive". Survival is guaranteed. They did not include any kind of fail state. There is no game over screen. That's that.

Again, for those others posting above that continue to misunderstand me, I don't recommend that they change anyone's favorite settings.

I'm just saying they should offer additional (optional) settings that will simulate a struggle to survive -- if the player WANTS to choose such settings.

If anyone says Icarus is a struggle to survive, they're simply not being honest. There is no struggle really, and hard level just means you grind longer, but the end result in the same. You wander around building and crafting and when you faint, you re-spawn and continue. That's fine for lots of players, but it's not a struggle to survive.

Also, super extreme hardcore soulslike ironman balls of steel mode isn't required to make a game a game of survival. Just saying. A true survival game is simply this: if you meet your needs (whether that's easy or hard) you survive, and if you don't meet your needs, you don't just faint, you die. That's what survival means. It's not hard to code this, many actual survival games provide this experience AND also allow settings for casual modes where players can breeze around the world without consequences.

[Dreaguh]

Originally posted by morgezuma:

Originally posted by Dreaguh:

When you choose your prospect, there will be options for easy normal and hard, below that is hard core. You can choose what sort of game play you want per mission.

Thanks for the info, I looked into it, that setting isn't available in the open world mode, but I tried it in the Outpost mode and it turns out that you can only faint in what they call "Extreme" mode. So there is no mode and no setting of any kind that will allow Icarus present itself as "a struggle to survive". Survival is guaranteed. They did not include any kind of fail state. There is no game over screen. That's that.

Again, for those others posting above that continue to misunderstand me, I don't recommend that they change anyone's favorite settings.

I'm just saying they should offer additional (optional) settings that will simulate a struggle to survive -- if the player WANTS to choose such settings.

If anyone says Icarus is a struggle to survive, they're simply not being honest. There is no struggle really, and hard level just means you grind longer, but the end result in the same. You wander around building and crafting and when you faint, you re-spawn and continue. That's fine for lots of players, but it's not a struggle to survive.

Also, super extreme hardcore soulslike ironman balls of steel mode isn't required to make a game a game of survival. Just saying. A true survival game is simply this: if you meet your needs (whether that's easy or hard) you survive, and if you don't meet your needs, you don't just faint, you die. That's what survival means. It's not hard to code this, many actual survival games provide this experience AND also allow settings for casual modes where players can breeze around the world without consequences.

The other modes I think were introduced for people who want a lesser experience, something more relaxed and to build, hence outposts being persistent, if you want the real experience when selecting your mode go with the missions the way the game was made to be played, and you will get the survival experience.