Vasith's undodgeable attack

[Tsuki Zero]

In Soul Vessel he has a combo that is shockwave followed by double-sided slash. all is fine and dandy when he uses in the middle third of the screen when facing the area with more room, but if he does it on the sides you are bound to either get hit by the shockwave or get hit by the slash as you can't run under him fast enough if you jumped over him to avoid the shockwave.

As a matter of fact, a number of Vasith's attacks have way too tight windows that makes him seem like a "second to last boss of a shmup", because he is way harder than the de-facto final boss, specially his wind and thunder attacks, both of which are very hard to read before you are sucked into a storm.

[Syltti]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice this. Made this fight on Witch a bit rough.

[Mistress Spitfire]

There's no such thing as 'very hard to read' with Vasith, as all of his attacks have a tremendous telegraph. If you think one of his attacks is 'impossible to dodge', it means you've got bad positioning and you need to think how you approach him better.

For starters each and every one of his 'spell' attacks are absorbed into him when he casts his runes, IN the order he's going to use them in. Each attack does the same thing each time, and if you've practiced against it (seriously, the training grounds' boss practice is no joke, it's insanely useful) you'll be able to make it through each and every time.

As for his melee attacks, you need to stay as close as you can to Vasith at all times. Standing far away from him is a death wish. There's plenty of things he'll do to try to get you:
His ground shockwave, where he'll completely wipe one side of the screen? He telegraphs the attack for two seconds, in this time you need to get behind him to avoid being hit. As you said, on harder difficulties, he'll do an aerial slash to try to hit you, to which you need to get away from him. If he's caught you in a corner with it, it means you didn't position yourself safely BEFORE the shockwave attack came out. You need to leave room to get past him by trying to coax him to attack the side with the LEAST space, so when you swap sides you have room to run away from his slash.

He'll also do a move where he'll create several copies of himself and dash across the screen with each of them. There is in fact, a safe space where you can jump over him, but it's hard to explain with text alone. Practice it in the boss training mode and you'll see what I mean by that.

There is NO such thing as an unavoidable attack in Dragon Marked for Death. Every attack has a way around it. You just need to know how the boss works first.

[Tsuki Zero]

Originally posted by Mistress Spitfire:

There's no such thing as 'very hard to read' with Vasith, as all of his attacks have a tremendous telegraph. If you think one of his attacks is 'impossible to dodge', it means you've got bad positioning and you need to think how you approach him better.

For starters each and every one of his 'spell' attacks are absorbed into him when he casts his runes, IN the order he's going to use them in. Each attack does the same thing each time, and if you've practiced against it (seriously, the training grounds' boss practice is no joke, it's insanely useful) you'll be able to make it through each and every time.

As for his melee attacks, you need to stay as close as you can to Vasith at all times. Standing far away from him is a death wish. There's plenty of things he'll do to try to get you:
His ground shockwave, where he'll completely wipe one side of the screen? He telegraphs the attack for two seconds, in this time you need to get behind him to avoid being hit. As you said, on harder difficulties, he'll do an aerial slash to try to hit you, to which you need to get away from him. If he's caught you in a corner with it, it means you didn't position yourself safely BEFORE the shockwave attack came out. You need to leave room to get past him by trying to coax him to attack the side with the LEAST space, so when you swap sides you have room to run away from his slash.

He'll also do a move where he'll create several copies of himself and dash across the screen with each of them. There is in fact, a safe space where you can jump over him, but it's hard to explain with text alone. Practice it in the boss training mode and you'll see what I mean by that.

There is NO such thing as an unavoidable attack in Dragon Marked for Death. Every attack has a way around it. You just need to know how the boss works first.

The Wind one wouldn't be so bad to dodge if we weren't constantly pulled to the sides. In higher difficulties, you can't find the positioning to dodge them.
The Lightning comes out very fast and depending on the version of the attack, you'll be paralyzed before you can react because the previous attack forced you into a danger zone.

And the aerial slash, as I said, is literally undodgeable if you are forced to the sides with least evasion room. MAYBE dodgeable with Shinobi and Bandit, blockable with Warrior, but everyone else will likely take the hit.

Vasith and a certain celestial ogre whose name I forgot along with Twin Dragons Coffin or whatever was their name does have some undodgeable attacks if you are forced to take a gamble (example: the ogre using a fire breath that reaches the entire broader side of the room). I've already analyzed those bosses long enough to notice the "perfectly dodgeable attack" can become the "perfectly UNdodgeable attack" under the worst conditions possibly imposed by RNG.

PS.: Oh, yes, just remembered: the element telegraph of Vasith? Doesn't matter, he can reset it anytime, or interrupt the order to continue after his normal attacks.

[Mistress Spitfire]

Originally posted by Tsukiyomaru Zero:

The Wind one wouldn't be so bad to dodge if we weren't constantly pulled to the sides. In higher difficulties, you can't find the positioning to dodge them.
The Lightning comes out very fast and depending on the version of the attack, you'll be paralyzed before you can react because the previous attack forced you into a danger zone.

On the EX version of the Vasith fight in the Cavern of Torment, he shoots six tornadoes at once, three from each side, three times. You say there's not enough room to dodge, but that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, I can dodge it a good 40% of the time but I'm not good enough to do it consistently yet, and I've seen plenty of players get through the entire thing without taking any damage. It's MEANT to be difficult. If you pay attention to the colour of his glyphs, you'd know EXACTLY what spell he was going to use next.
Yes, the lightning DOES come out fast, but if you know he's about to cast it by paying attention to the order he stores his spells, you can be in position BEFORE you're caught off-guard. Once again, positioning is more important than just dodging it mindlessly. If you're focusing on dodging too agressively and you don't pay any attention to the space he's putting you into, you WILL get hit, guaranteed. That's YOUR fault for not being attentive and not using his attacking AI to your advantage.

Originally posted by Tsukiyomaru Zero:

And the aerial slash, as I said, is literally undodgeable if you are forced to the sides with least evasion room. MAYBE dodgeable with Shinobi and Bandit, blockable with Warrior, but everyone else will likely take the hit.

Which, is why I said, don't let him force you into a corner. All of his attacks are very slow, and the fight is about effectively managing the space you have to work with. If he corners you and you don't manage your space effectively, you WILL get hit. Once again, YOUR fault.

Originally posted by Tsukiyomaru Zero:

Vasith and a certain celestial ogre whose name I forgot along with Twin Dragons Coffin or whatever was their name does have some undodgeable attacks if you are forced to take a gamble (example: the ogre using a fire breath that reaches the entire broader side of the room). I've already analyzed those bosses long enough to notice the "perfectly dodgeable attack" can become the "perfectly UNdodgeable attack" under the worst conditions possibly imposed by RNG.

You could not be more wrong. The fire-breathing attack of the ogre does have a few weakspots that you can exploit, for example, using Dragon Slash as Empress to duck UNDER the flames. OR, you could NOT keep close after one of his attacks ends, because by doing so, you're giving him a reason to use the flame breath? If you keep your distance, he will never use it, he only uses it if you sit in his face. You have to move all the way back, and wait for him to attack with something that has a long cooldown, attack him back and move away, or else when he next attacks, it's very likely it'll be the fire breath again.

As for the Twin Dragons, I'm presuming they're the ones you're talking about? Unless you mean the boss at the 105th floor of the Cavern of Torment (I don't know his English name yet, I haven't got that far), they ALWAYS do the same attacks every time. Head swing that's always in the same location, their special attack depending on if it's the left or right side, left is ice, right is the suction move, they then try to slam their head into you and flick you, and then they sink underground to spray water and do it all over again. None of that is unavoidable, and once again, seems to be a matter of you being unable to manage space. You seem to be blaming the game and your lack of foresight and improvisation instead of learning each boss. There's always a way to no-damage them, even playing solo. None of it is RNG.

Originally posted by Tsukiyomaru Zero:

PS.: Oh, yes, just remembered: the element telegraph of Vasith? Doesn't matter, he can reset it anytime, or interrupt the order to continue after his normal attacks.

Yes, he can restock on his runes, in which case, the order he casts in will change, and you have to re-remember them. That's... one of the most important parts of the fight, and you didn't pick up on that? You say he can interrupt the order, do a normal attack and keep on casting? Yes, that's the point! You have to remember which spell in the order he is going to do, and when he jumps into the top middle of the screen in the air, he will cast it. There's nothing 'unavoidable' about that.

[Tsuki Zero]

Originally posted by Mistress Spitfire:

<whatever>

You Just want to show off, don't you? If you mastered him so, then go ahead, make videos showing how to dodge them all. No cuts.

[Mistress Spitfire]

Originally posted by Tsukiyomaru Zero:

Originally posted by Mistress Spitfire:

<whatever>

You Just want to show off, don't you? If you mastered him so, then go ahead, make videos showing how to dodge them all. No cuts.

I'm giving genuine advice, and all you seem to be doing is trying to say that I'm wrong and I should prove it? Would you like me to link you some videos of the attacks in question?

You're being incredibly hostile for seemingly no reason.

EDIT: Here, because I'm such a nice soul, have two examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PndLusLEZh0

The first of which, he does ALL of these 'undodgeable' attacks that you claim to have 'analysed for long enough' and does the entire fight not taking damage, once. There was even a moment where he was caught in a corner by the shockwave attack, dodging the UNAVOIDABLE aerial slash you were talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc897pxK3c8

And here, a second one where the person ALSO does not take damage. Both of these players have clearly spent plenty of time in the training mission studying the boss' patterns and learning to adapt to them, not making petty excuses about RNG or the game being unfair. The game is perfectly fair, you're just refusing to adapt. I really, really do advise you spend some hours in training mode and learn these bosses for yourself.

[Chrisesus]

The game is sort of unbalanced for certain characters. While you can perfectly avoid taking damage using some characters, such as Shinobi with his dash, the Warrior with his barrier, or Bandit with some of his artifacts because of their invulnerability frames the other characters don't share those benefits. And even if you can perform amazing dodges by using the mechanics of the Empress you then forget the Oracle and the Witch which require lots of preparation and they have a lack of mobility. Try soloing quests like Werewolf Hunting, Soul Vessel and a couple of others at lv 110 with them. While they are possible if you are a super hardcore gamer that has basically ultra instinct and foresight, for the average person they cannot juggle so much, because Oracle and Witch requires you to be constantly using inputs, while remaining stationary, and some of these bosses, they go super crazy with their movesets, where they are basically spamming them every couple of seconds, and you have to decide whether to waste your time dodging and not dealing any damage, or taking a couple of hits just to be able to have enough time to cast something. You also have to keep in mind that all of the missions have a timer so you cannot afford to waste so much time.

I literally think that it is almost impossible to play Witch or Oracle without the buff for resist instant death. I also speak from personal experience when I describe my difficulties, because I have all my characters around the lvs of 80-90, I have a ton of end game equipment that I have acquired through my solo playthroughs, and I'm not saying that it is impossible, but if you play solo you may almost quit the game, because of so many frustrations and unbalance that can be experienced. I understand that this game was designed with cooperative play being the main form of playstyle but you can see where some of these characters have more flaws than others.

My closing thoughts, while there's a lot to enjoy out of the game, I feel that it is largely unfinished and it has a lot of lazy game design in it. And don't get me started with the netcode, where there's nothing good to write about, specially on the Switch, because I own both copies of the game, and let me tell you right now, that it was super annoying to get back my characters to lv 80-90 on Steam, right after having it done on the Switch, because of so many communication errors that frustrated the hell out of me. And beside the aforementioned add a little spice of lag and the only recipe available will be disastrous. I've seen mobs teleport all over the place during some of my playthroughs with friends.

[Mistress Spitfire]

Originally posted by Chrisesus:

<snip>

I don't disagree with you, the game is meant to be a tricky experience solo, and whether or not this is intentionally to encourage people to play co-op and work together isn't really up for debate. The game follows on with a lot of the Monster Hunter gameflow, where beating each mission to where you've """beaten""" the game is where most casual players would stop, and the higher quest levels are more for the sake of replay value. In that sense, I feel like a lot of the difficulty complaints are from players who try to rush for the higher level quests as soon as possible without putting in the practice or preparation, which I can understand, Monster Hunter was the same way.

While the game has its fair share of single player balance gripes, I cannot stress enough that the entire game is definitely doable solo, I've seen a lot of Japanese players tear through the late game which blows my mind (Someone's already done solo Cavern of Torment with just Oracle, mad respect to that dude), I can't stress enough that the very difficult gameplay is intentional. All of the attacks are dodgeable, and certainly not impossible, which was my entire point coming into this thread, but I won't disagree with players that say the game gets much harder later on. Even beating the Marked for Death quest with each character takes a tremendous amount of time, so I still think anyone doing it like that would get their money's worth.

Originally posted by Too Metal:

I SURE do LOVE EMPHASISING words in CAPS to prove IM BETTER than YOU!!!!

...What does this have to do with the thread whatsoever? The fact I'm highlighting words for emphasis means I'm trying to be elitist somehow, when on entering this thread, I've given nothing but advice? I've never come in here to brag, which I made clear in one of my initial replies, where I pointed out that I still very much struggle with Vasith's wind attack, but this isn't a matter of blaming the game, it's me acknowledging I need to practice it more.
This is pointlessly trying to start a flamewar for petty reasons with no relevance to the discussion, and it does not belong in these discussion forums.

[Too Metal]

Should have just left it at this to answer your question

Originally posted by Too Metal:

I SURE do LOVE EMPHASISING words in CAPS to prove IM BETTER than YOU!!!!

Originally posted by ...What does this have to do with the thread whatsoever? The fact I'm highlighting words for emphasis means I'm trying to be elitist :

[Mistress Spitfire]

Originally posted by Too Metal:

Should have just left it at this to answer your question

Originally posted by Too Metal:

I SURE do LOVE EMPHASISING words in CAPS to prove IM BETTER than YOU!!!!

Originally posted by ...What does this have to do with the thread whatsoever? The fact I'm highlighting words for emphasis means I'm trying to be elitist :

Yes, because taking what I'm saying out of context and trying to flame just because you disagree with me is such a wonderfully mature stance to take. Grow up. If you have nothing relevant to say to the discussion, don't say anything at all.

[Too Metal]

I'm not the only one that thought the same thing. next time you try to attempt "help" don't be so pedantic and it might be received better.

Originally posted by Tsukiyomaru Zero:

Originally posted by Mistress Spitfire:

<whatever>

You Just want to show off, don't you? If you mastered him so, then go ahead, make videos showing how to dodge them all. No cuts.

[Too Metal]

Man id hate to see you when you aren't helping someone from the bottom of your heart.

Originally posted by Mistress Spitfire:

Yes, he can restock on his runes, in which case, the order he casts in will change, and you have to re-remember them. That's... one of the most important parts of the fight, and you didn't pick up on that? You say he can interrupt the order, do a normal attack and keep on casting? Yes, that's the point!

[Mistress Spitfire]

Originally posted by Too Metal:

Man id hate to see you when you aren't helping someone from the bottom of your heart.

Originally posted by Yes, he can restock on his runes, in which case, the order he casts in will change, and you have to re-remember them. That's... one of the most important parts of the fight, and you didn't pick up on that? You say he can interrupt the order, do a normal attack and keep on casting? Yes, that's the point!:

Boy it's almost like he started the thread not as a way of encouraging discussion, the entire point of what a forum is for, but just as a method to vent and whine, continuing to pretentiously argue that it's the game's fault and not his own, when I've given him plenty of proof otherwise.
I'm sorry me being brutally honest to someone with a genuine history of complaining hurt your feelings. Hopefully the mods close this pointless thread, because this clearly isn't going anywhere, and you clearly have nothing helpful to say in regards to the topic whatsoever.

[gavid]

Originally posted by Mistress Spitfire:

Originally posted by Tsukiyomaru Zero:

You Just want to show off, don't you? If you mastered him so, then go ahead, make videos showing how to dodge them all. No cuts.

I'm giving genuine advice, and all you seem to be doing is trying to say that I'm wrong and I should prove it? Would you like me to link you some videos of the attacks in question?

You're being incredibly hostile for seemingly no reason.

EDIT: Here, because I'm such a nice soul, have two examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PndLusLEZh0

The first of which, he does ALL of these 'undodgeable' attacks that you claim to have 'analysed for long enough' and does the entire fight not taking damage, once. There was even a moment where he was caught in a corner by the shockwave attack, dodging the UNAVOIDABLE aerial slash you were talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc897pxK3c8

And here, a second one where the person ALSO does not take damage. Both of these players have clearly spent plenty of time in the training mission studying the boss' patterns and learning to adapt to them, not making petty excuses about RNG or the game being unfair. The game is perfectly fair, you're just refusing to adapt. I really, really do advise you spend some hours in training mode and learn these bosses for yourself.

I am now practicing at the training room with warrior

bro i cant dodge the dash attack like the video did, it does damage me while standing behind him (both electro and contact damage). Is warrior's hit-box bigger or what? (switch version i am playin)


also like the ice attack, some times i cant really doge them all like the video too,

maybe the warrior is designed for blocking them instead of dogging?

[Mistress Spitfire]

Originally posted by gavid:

I am now practicing at the training room with warrior

bro i cant dodge the dash attack like the video did, it does damage me while standing behind him (both electro and contact damage). Is warrior's hit-box bigger or what? (switch version i am playin)


also like the ice attack, some times i cant really doge them all like the video too,

maybe the warrior is designed for blocking them instead of dogging?

Don't quote me on this but Warrior might have a taller hitbox so yeah that might be the case. There probably is a more consistent and safe way to dodge it as Warrior but I don't play Warrior much, I tend to play it as safe as I can and rely on the block too much.