Malphon - Not Terribly Exciting

[Toki]

The twin gauntlets aren't super exciting. They feel a bit weak.
And the ways in which they can be used aren't as versatile as some of the other weapons.

For example. The shield has 3 main forms of attacks:
1. Shield smacking. Basic attacks.
2. Shield throw. Ranged attack.
3. Bullrush. A higher damage rush.
A fun weapon with different modes and utility.

The sword:
1. Basic attacks.
2. Large AOE damage.
Not as much variety as with the shield, but two distinct uses.

However, with the fists, your modes are:
1. Normal basic attacks.
2. Big smack, that's basically the same as normal attacks, but just hits fewer times.
With gauntlets, the two attacks they can perform are basically used in very similar circumstances.
I'd maybe invent something new for Y while making Shoryuken into a charge Y or a charge X attack. Or into something that can be acquired through Daedalus Upgrades.

New Y for gauntlets could for example be:
A fiery charge that's basically Bullrush, except no charge up and rolling while using it or right after using it could trigger another fiery charge, so the more dodges you got, the more fiery punch charges you get.

(Yes, I didn't cover how Y has two forms depending if it's trigger on a dash or not, but I want to be succinct. Point is: With gauntlets X and Y are too similar. Current rising uppercut could be just added as a combo finisher from a Daedalus Upgrade. )

[Parzival2436]

I personally enjoy the gauntlets and find they're meant to be a balance between power and speed, they are after all the second fastest weapon in the game and can really shine with certain builds. They're especially handy for stacking effects.

[Toki]

I played more with them. They're not actually too bad if you get the right build.
My fastest times have been with them.
I think utilizing dash cancels to end combos early is nice or getting the infinite combo upgrade.

While I no longer think they need a buff or anything, I think the Specials should be changed to be less similar to the function basic attacks fill.
A decent Special that isn't about just close quarters damage. (Movement or whatnot'd be nice.)

It could even be a Special which can't be used unless you've delivered 20 punches between uses. So it becomes more like a combo finisher special move or whatever.

[CacaFresca]

Originally posted by Thos:

The twin gauntlets aren't super exciting. They feel a bit weak.
And the ways in which they can be used aren't as versatile as some of the other weapons.

For example. The shield has 3 main forms of attacks:
1. Shield smacking. Basic attacks.
2. Shield throw. Ranged attack.
3. Bullrush. A higher damage rush.
A fun weapon with different modes and utility.

The sword:
1. Basic attacks.
2. Large AOE damage.
Not as much variety as with the shield, but two distinct uses.

However, with the fists, your modes are:
1. Normal basic attacks.
2. Big smack, that's basically the same as normal attacks, but just hits fewer times.
With gauntlets, the two attacks they can perform are basically used in very similar circumstances.
I'd maybe invent something new for Y while making Shoryuken into a charge Y or a charge X attack. Or into something that can be acquired through Daedalus Upgrades.

New Y for gauntlets could for example be:
A fiery charge that's basically Bullrush, except no charge up and rolling while using it or right after using it could trigger another fiery charge, so the more dodges you got, the more fiery punch charges you get.

(Yes, I didn't cover how Y has two forms depending if it's trigger on a dash or not, but I want to be succinct. Point is: With gauntlets X and Y are too similar. Current rising uppercut could be just added as a combo finisher from a Daedalus Upgrade. )

The twin fists do have a 200% charged "bullrush" style attack that covers as much ground as the shield charge, but only with a hammer upgrade. Try using Talos aspect (Magnetic cutter) with it and then get Athena Divine Flourish boon for a near invincible special, or pair it with Zeus Lightning boon/Poseidon boon... There's lots of cool things you can do with it, but I find it is the most rare fist upgrade offered.

I personally think that the charged special attack should be standard issue for the fists and not an upgrade though. Just my opinion.

Key is to cancel out of the special animation with a dash strike after your Shoryuken so you dont get caught by counterattacks because the special does have an absolutely slow cool down that leaves you wide open.. Yes, there are better weapons for high heat, but the fists are the weapon I have the most fun with.

I also recommend using Athena Divine strike for attack paired with Artemis support fire for some impressive DPS + defensive awesomeness. If you get the rolling knuckle upgrade for continuous attacking, you can literally stand in front of any boss or foe except Lernie and Hades and never get hit (you will deflect everything). Minotaur and Thesius are a joke if you arrive with this build.

Lernie will get you with his face stomp, and Hades will get you with his spin attack, but that's it.

[Gregor]

Though I've got other weapons then those, I though they where amazing, with speedy close combat, the Talos Aspect is also a great adition to it with the magnetic pull.

I know I've only completed 1 playthrough with them and it's my least played weapon, though I felt like there was a realy nice intuitive aproach to it, repositioning , punching and going at the enemies. With my meanwhile aquired knowledge about the utilisation of casts I assume they are still great as an alternating playstyle to the other weapons.

Keep in mind, one aspect was still planned for the weapon ! (-:

[Gregor]

Originally posted by Gregor:

Though I've got other weapons then those, I though they where amazing, with speedy close combat, the Talos Aspect is also a great adition to it with the magnetic pull.

I know I've only completed 1 playthrough with them and it's my least played weapon, though I felt like there was a realy nice intuitive aproach to it, repositioning , punching and going at the enemies. With my meanwhile aquired knowledge about the utilisation of casts I assume they are still great as an alternating playstyle to the other weapons.

Keep in mind, one aspect was still planned for the weapon ! (-:

Actually from the playstyle i'd like to consider them my most favored weapon, though they are harder to handle then the Spear with Guan-Yu or Aegis in all it's aspects( might not consider Zeus, because I didn't play that one yet) or the Ardamant Railgun and still they are nice as addition with beeing the fastest melee weapon of the game.

[CacaFresca]

Originally posted by Gregor:

Originally posted by Gregor:

Though I've got other weapons then those, I though they where amazing, with speedy close combat, the Talos Aspect is also a great adition to it with the magnetic pull.

I know I've only completed 1 playthrough with them and it's my least played weapon, though I felt like there was a realy nice intuitive aproach to it, repositioning , punching and going at the enemies. With my meanwhile aquired knowledge about the utilisation of casts I assume they are still great as an alternating playstyle to the other weapons.

Keep in mind, one aspect was still planned for the weapon ! (-:

Actually from the playstyle i'd like to consider them my most favored weapon, though they are harder to handle then the Spear with Guan-Yu or Aegis in all it's aspects( might not consider Zeus, because I didn't play that one yet) or the Ardamant Railgun and still they are nice as addition with beeing the fastest melee weapon of the game.

The Zeus aspect on Shield is incredibly powerful, but I can tell you that it requires IMMENSE patience. It is not a tool that can be used for speed runs, but... You can literally sit in a corner and just keep tossing it out onto the field and kill everything. bullrush through mobs when it gets too crazy, turn around and repeat. Takes forever though.

I'm trying to come up with some kind of build where i can toss the shield and run in circles repeatedly bullrushing, while the shield slowly follows me around trying to return but never actually reaching me.

I think a Demeter or Zeus/Poseidon build w/Seastorm might work best with it that way, not sure. Having too much fun climbing the heat ladder with the fists to care at the moment.

[Odahviing]

I love the fists, but you are right, most of my runs with them turn out to be pretty underwhelming and underpowered.

[Toki]

Originally posted by Odahviing:

I love the fists, but you are right, most of my runs with them turn out to be pretty underwhelming and underpowered.

I've had some incredible runs with them. My quickest run is on them. (17 min or something.)
(Not bragging, just pointing out I've cleared the game quickest with them so they don't suck, I guess. I doubt 17 mins is too impressive.)

But I'd for sure want them to do something more than just close combat since X and Y are kind of meant for the same stuff imo.
And if they are underpowered, that'd be nice to address. (But I don't think they're bad if you max out Zag upgrades for them.)