Why can't you reroll Daedalus' Hammer choices with Fated Persuasion?

[artificial death in the west]

Is this a bug or a design choice? I don't see much sense in it, as you can reroll basically any randomly generated set of choices in the game with it.

[squat_instructor]

Not only that but you can't get rid of it with Pool of Purging. Technically you can re-roll it with anvil in Styx as of the latest update but that's not the most practical solution of course.

[Jacobella]

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

Not only that but you can't get rid of it with Pool of Purging. Technically you can re-roll it with anvil in Styx as of the latest update but that's not the most practical solution of course.

I love gambling and can't resist hammers

Or the Fateful Twist sold in the Well of Charon

[Pathington]

.

[Odahviing]

They should really add fated persuasion to hammer selection and a keepsake that lets us select hammers in the first room. Sometimes terrible hammer choices can really kill a planned run especially since one is offered so late.

[artificial death in the west]

Originally posted by Odahviing:

They should really add fated persuasion to hammer selection and a keepsake that lets us select hammers in the first room. Sometimes terrible hammer choices can really kill a planned run especially since one is offered so late.

This is precisely my point; hammers change a run/ playstyle much more than boons do, so if you decide to include some kind of RNG curbing mechanic in your game, they obviously should be subject to it in my opinion.

[Tinytim]

Considering how absolutely OP some daedalus upgrades are, I think allowing rerolls on them will cause people to only use it on hammers. The problem I have with the hammers is that I have to take a variant no matter what. Have had a few runs where all the variants were downgrades for my build.

There should be an option to "sell the hammer" instead of upgrading if none of the alternatives seem viable for your run. You can always purge a bad god-boon, and chaos boons are pure positives anyway, while daedalus boons can actually mess up a run somewhat.

[Anderson]

100% agree on rerolling Hammers.

Though, ultimately, I would like to see the number of choices on everything go from 3 to 4, to help smooth out the RNG.

[Kosher Pork ✞ Jesus Saves ✞]

+1, I'd appreciate this feature.

[C4RNIVOR3]

Bumping this because Amir provided the thought process behind disallowing hammers to be rerolled in today's speedrun stream

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/696665287?t=02h48m25s

Transcribing his response as best as I can,

"Part of it is what felt right to us, both from a world and kind of gameplay balance, like what do the Fates have influence over. And for me specifically, this specific thing felt like it's more grounded in the world and something that shouldn't be changed. But also I think that part of the magic of Hades is what things are affectable and not, and so I think a lot about how much control do you have over the run, and where should players have that control. I think everybody on earth would say "Let me have control over this" and I understand why players want that, but I suspect that the type of experience you will have if you do have that is not going to be conducive [unintelligible] over the long term. I understand like 50 heat you'll really want it, but for just playing Hades run after run I actually think you will discover less about the game, and you know what, and discover less about yourself actually and what you're capable of [unintelligible] the hammer you want."

In short it seems they want players to not rely on always being able to get specific setups and explore more with the hammers they get, and this is unlikely to change. More control = less replayability.

There's more to the discussion after that but I only wrote in the immediate answer that was given.

[Blink4aMoment]

Yeah I think i'm going to have to go against most of the community in this one. If you allow daedalus re rolls it makes me less likely to do my daily run. The first time I got flurry slash and piercing wave together I experienced a high I've only ever been able to chase. I want it with the athena attack boon so bad you don't understand. A similar experience with Cruel thrust and Double Edge with Artemis' attack boon. Every weapon has these ideal hammer, weapon, boon, combos. By allowing me to reroll them I'm likely going to hoard as many rerolls as i can for it. When i don't get what i want or when i reroll a decent upgrade away for a complete trash one chasing the ideal one, that's going to be much more frustrating than the normal rerolls. If i reroll away a boon that makes me deal more damage or gives me more survivability i can play better to make up for it, if I completely change how my weapon plays in Elysium it could just lead to my death. I think people are also forgetting that there's like an average of only 12 daedalus hammers for each weapon. Each god has close to like 16 boons, then a bunch of duos, then a legendary, not to mention boons have rarity's which hammers don't. In reality there's close to around 50 different boons for each god considering rarity's. Of course you need other boons to unlock other tiers of boons from gods but my point stands. You're going to see the same thing a lot more when rerolling hammers and you're far more likely to get exactly what you want. and when it wouldn't work like that you'd probably get more frustrated than when you're offered 3 non condusive hammers in Elysium right now.

[Tinytim]

Well, if they ever do decide to allow re-rolls, it should be the same that re-rolls doors, not boons. That way it won't be worthless and it'll be a proper choice. You can get control over daedalus, or you can control the divine boons. Not both.

[Kosher Pork ✞ Jesus Saves ✞]

There's an idea, Tinytim. Meets in the middle, I'd say it'd make going with the other fated choice option far more tempting - as I almost never use it over a chance of rerolling boons/shop pools. But a chance to get certain Daedalus builds...Oh yes.

[qawal]

I once held the the adamant rail with Eris aspect that fires five rockets with insane special attack percentages...
having access to that force of nature more often would ruin the game in my opinion. Best experience it without rerolls, its a lot more satisfying.

[Tinytim]

My biggest complaint about the hammers is that once you enter a room with one, you have to leave with your weapon modified. If you take the "less boon options" pact, it also affects hammers, which can force you to take something that can mess up your run. I'd really prefer if one at least had the chance to sell the hammer for 50 Obol instead of picking an upgrade.

[ẞrinkmøn]

I think re-rolling the hammer would just disencourage you to try out different strategies and builds imo. I like the way it is, not every run should give you the "best" hammer upgrades because it would benefit your current build.