Why use Cast?

[MCKNDRICK]

I've been playing for around 10 hours now, and I never use cast. I only pick the boon options to fulfil the prophecies.

Is Cast worth it with some builds? Can someone gift me Cast tips?

Cheers.

[Tiank]

Escrito originalmente por Sailor_seller:

Escrito originalmente por Promethian:

No. That is at one cast, baseline with no bonuses. Also Charon wells are a thing. Bloodstones are cheap in them. Hell, every buff is cheap in them. It makes Charon's keepsake absurdly good.

It is good, but that's your keepsake slot gone.

That's true, but if you equip it before Styx and you're lucky enough, you might have a boost of damage for the last boss fight.

[squat_instructor]

I used to run it through Elisyim to them be able to buy some buffs for Styx and swap it out. You keep those buffs and get to use another keepsake. The issue is that on high heat you generally want to have Acorn starting in Elysium or even Asphodel, so that strat kind of falls short.

[Uli Minati]

IS Infernal Soul (3 casts), SS Stygian Soul (regen)
Boiling/Abyssal Blood synergizes with both talents equally, recharging ammo is independent of getting ammo stuck in enemies.
Artemis dislodge boon synergizes with both talents equally, one ammo will dislodge after (default) 15 seconds per cast, so you can see it as added cast damage.
Extra casts from Chaos or Artemis synergizes with both talents (and Promethian corrected me that both IS and SS recharge all used ammo independently)
Hermes' Quick Reload applies to both IS dropping ammo and SS recharging ammo

IS>SS in the following cases:
- not your main damage: You can burst trash with 3 casts, then immediately recharge by picking up ammo. Also, if you don't shoot every 3 seconds then SS doesn't help you at all.
- Poseidon sword: This lets you recharge all your ammo in a second, making SS useless.
- Festive Fog/Slicing Shot/Crystal Beam/Hera Bow with +0/+1 Cast: All casts recharge in about 5 seconds maximum. IS deals 3-4x damage in this time frame, SS deals 1-2x damage every 3 seconds which is still slightly weaker.

SS>IS in the following cases:
- sticky casts, tanky enemies: IS deals 3-8x damage every 15 seconds, SS deals 1-6x damage every 3 seconds. SS is about +60% to +300% stronger with more casts.
- Festive Fog/Slicing Shot/Crystal Beam/Hera Bow with Artemis Legendary: SS now does 4-6x damage in 3 seconds compared to IS doing 6-8x in 5 seconds. SS is stronger now.
- you use Cast on recharge, but take longer than 3-4 seconds to pick up ammo. SS lower recharge now beats the extra casts from IS, even if you use Artemis legendary or non-sticky casts.
- you hate picking up stuff or keep throwing your Cast into lava or outside the walls.

TL;DR if you get 5s recharge or lower (Poseidon Sword, Hera Bow or appropriate cast), then IS is generally better, otherwise SS. If you only use Cast as extra damage rather than main damage, IS is better. If you plan to get Artemis Legendary, SS would be better no matter what. If you miss your Cast often or are lazy with picking up ammo, SS is also better.

[squat_instructor]

exactly

[Peak Ahjussi]

Try cast duo boon i.e. Hunting blades, Scintillating Feast, Ice Wine or Crystal Clarity. I didn find casting useful until i got try those. Having one of those changes the game play from I can do this to EZ mode. Casting was meh to me until i got my first hunting blade, then I was like this does way more dmg and is way safer than having me to dash in, attack then dash out. After I got Hunting blades the first time i went back to mirror and immediately upgraded to having 3 crystals.

Look at cast as a long term strat, you will do way more dmg and have a much easier time if you build into it. Too bad the game doesn't explain that.

[MCKNDRICK]

Is there a way to obtain Duo boons easier? I've only seen a few.

[Tiank]

First of all, it's good to know when certain Duo Boons have a chance of appearing, and this site can help with that: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Duo_Boons

Secondly, there's a Mirror's ability that at max rank gives you +15% higher chance of a Duo Boon appearing, called Olympian Legacy (alternative to Olympian Favor).

[Prometheus]

Escrito originalmente por Uli Minati:

IS Infernal Soul (3 casts), SS Stygian Soul (regen)
Boiling/Abyssal Blood synergizes with both talents equally, recharging ammo is independent of getting ammo stuck in enemies.
Artemis dislodge boon synergizes with both talents equally, one ammo will dislodge after (default) 15 seconds per cast, so you can see it as added cast damage.
Extra casts from Chaos or Artemis synergizes wiht both talents, but favors IS: All ammo recharges separately from each other, but SS only recharges one ammo at a time.

IS>SS in the following cases:
- vs trash: It let you burst enemies with 3 casts, then immediately recharge by picking up ammo.
- Poseidon sword: This lets you recharge all your ammo in a second, making SS useless.
- Festive Fog/Slicing Shot/Crystal Beam: All three casts recharge in about 5 seconds maximum. IS deals 3x damage in this time frame, SS deals 1x damage every 3 seconds which is at best half as good.
- sticky cast, tanky enemy, Artemis Legendary: You deal at least 6x damage every 15 seconds, while SS only deals 1x per 3 seconds: no matter how much max ammo you have, SS only regenerates 1 ammo per 3 seconds.
- you don't Cast on recharge: If you don't shoot every 3 seconds then SS usually doesn't help you at all. In this case, IS is generally 3x better.

SS>IS in the following cases:
- sticky +0 or +1 casts, tanky enemy: IS deals 3-4x damage every 15 seconds, SS deals 1x damage every 3 seconds. This also applies to Hermes' Quick Reload.
- you use Cast on recharge, but take longer than 3-4 seconds to pick up ammo. SS lower recharge now beats the extra casts from IS, even if you use Artemis legendary or non-sticky casts.
- you hate picking up stuff or keep throwing your Cast into lava or outside the walls.

TL;DR in most cases, Infernal Soul is better or far better than Stygian Soul

Wrong. SS each stone recharges on its own timer. You assumed it would be one at a time without ever testing.

I will give you that for Poseidon Sword, Ares, Dio and Dem casts IS is better. But the context for this discussion is I suggested SS for a Hera bow build that chases the Artemis cast.

[Gregor]

Escrito originalmente por Sailor_seller:

Didn't know that but don't you think you want more stones on a burst cast build? Hypothetically if you shoot with all 3 stones you can end boss` invulnerability phase on the spot instead of waiting 3x3s for regenerating cast to come off cooldown. It is even more so important with something like Poseidon aspect as you can force them out on demand.

Since I haven't played that and already been able to stack like 7 stones at a time in hades with the mirror keyfeature as basis for the possibility. I'm confident it's better then having a limit of mine reached 4, might higher in possibility and still it's easy accessable.

[Gregor]

Escrito originalmente por Gregor:

Escrito originalmente por Sailor_seller:

Didn't know that but don't you think you want more stones on a burst cast build? Hypothetically if you shoot with all 3 stones you can end boss` invulnerability phase on the spot instead of waiting 3x3s for regenerating cast to come off cooldown. It is even more so important with something like Poseidon aspect as you can force them out on demand.

Since I haven't played that and already been able to stack like 7 stones at a time in hades with the mirror keyfeature as basis for the possibility. I'm confident it's better then having a limit of mine reached 4, might higher in possibility and still it's easy accessable.

No need for repositioning through recollection or relying on the Hermes legendary is freeing up the possible playthrough limitations to reach that source of DPS.

[squat_instructor]

Whatever floats your boat, but I think the benefit of having a baseline amount straight away without relying on external sources is just too strong to pass on.

[Gregor]

Escrito originalmente por Sailor_seller:

Whatever floats your boat, but I think the benefit of having a baseline amount straight away without relying on external sources is just too strong to pass on.

I play on succeed and don't stress myself to much on time. I've got the time I want and can outsustain any fight in time , that's one of immortal benefits ;)

[Beautiful Ham Sandwich]

Cast does seem weak at first, when I first started playing I kind of just assumed it was to compensate when you lack range on like Sword and Shield and for Boiling Blood (up to +50% damage to enemies with a bloodstone in them), but then I did my first ever Cast focused build surrounding the Duo Boon Blizzard Shot, and it actually carried me into my first ever win against the final boss. Granted I was using the Shield so I could just throw the Blizzard Shot and just guard, but still that ♥♥♥♥ is really strong, it wiped out regular mobs insanely fast too

[squat_instructor]

As mentioned before, Hunting Blades cast build has to be the most absurd build in terms of power. You deal ludicrous amount damage while being perfectly safe. The first example of it in action on YT I came across:

https://youtu.be/GUNrdaqvpko?t=2152

[MCKNDRICK]

Escrito originalmente por Sailor_seller:

As mentioned before, Hunting Blades cast build has to be the most absurd build in terms of power. You deal ludicrous amount damage while being perfectly safe. The first example of it in action on YT I came across:

https://youtu.be/GUNrdaqvpko?t=2152

Jesus! I want to try this