A rant about damage avoidance mechanics, and looking for tips about how to avoid a couple certain attacks.

[Mysterious Sir Knight]

Rant:

I notice in loads of games these days that they handle dodging/blocking attacks in a way I vehemently hate. In order to understand what I mean I need to give these different ways of handling avoiding damage names:

There is the good kind, which I will call "Reaction Avoiding",
and the bad kind "Timed Avoiding".
Reaction Avoiding is when the enemy uses/fires their attack quickly, and the goal is to react and press what ever key protects against/avoids the attack.
Timed Avoiding is the Darksouls style massive wind up but then instantaneous attack.

With Reaction Avoiding, I feel like I'm trying to Git Gud and sharpen my skills that will then help me throughout the rest of the game.
While with Timed Avoiding, I feel like I'm meta-gaming, trying to memorize the time it takes for each specific attack to instantly fly at me after the huge wind up, and once I have finally memorized all these stupid animations, I don't even feel like I got better at the game, I instead got better at fighting that one boss and their specific animations.

Now for my experience with it in this game:
This is what my 10h of experience so far have been like,
1st Run: Ended on Meg
2nd Run: Ended on The Hydra
3rd Run: Ended on Theseus and Asterius
4th Run through 9th or 10th Run: Ended on final boss, every, single, time. For like 5 or 6 runs in a row.

And its because of the final boss's huge timed circular sweep, it takes about 75% of my health overall in each run, and I really hate it. It feels like I just have to keep bashing my head against the wall until I memorize its timing (Which is made worse by it taking about an hour to get another attempt at the boss). I want the game to feel like its saying "GIT GUD" instead of "Memorize, Memorize!".

I really shouldn't have to say this, but people on the internet like to argue about how "You're (Somehow) WRONG for not enjoying a mechanic, because XYZ"
Note that this is my personal opinion, you don't have to try and prove me wrong or insult me for not liking this style of Damage Avoidance. If you like it, more power to ya.
However if you would like to discuss ways you think I or others can make it more fun, go ahead. Just be nice.

My actual question:

Any tips for avoiding Theseus's Charged Javelin Throw, and the Final Boss's huge Circular Sweep? Because these attacks that you see coming a mile away but require precise timing are just not my style at all and ruining my enjoyment of this otherwise awesome game.

[Suzaku]

Theseus' throw can be blocked by the pillars in the arena. Your only options are to use those for cover, learn the timing and dodge it, or use the shield infernal arm and block it.

And for the final boss's large sweeps, you just need to learn the timing or block it with the shield.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Suzaku:

Theseus' throw can be blocked by the pillars in the arena. Your only options are to use those for cover, learn the timing and dodge it, or use the shield infernal arm and block it.

And for the final boss's large sweeps, you just need to learn the timing or block it with the shield.

I think you can also deflect the spear. Depending on what deflects you have, that could be effective.

[chris.ferrantegerard]

Originally posted by The Mysterious Sir Knight:

Any tips for avoiding Theseus's Charged Javelin Throw

When he's going to throw his spear there's a targeting retinal over your head. Easiest to dash through pillars (don't try going around). If you have shield you can block. Otherwise it's possible to dodge mid-flight but you're best off using the pillars for cover.

the Final Boss's huge Circular Sweep?

I think it's possible to dash through him when he's going to do it but this requires precise timing. If using shield can block as always. Otherwise you can play more defensively, baiting out Hades' thrusts and sweeps and getting a couple of hits in before retreating.

If you have a good ranged option (bow, gun, spear with explosive special, etc.) then you should be able to kite him from afar. Should make it easier to avoid his spear attacks. Cast builds like Demeter's crystal are also pretty effective; with auto-regen and 2+ casts you can kite him pretty effectively.

[Nibbie]

As mentioned the pillars can block the javelin, and if you are a decent distance away I'm pretty sure you can just walk sideways and be fine.

For the circle sweep, it is important to note that Hades takes a big step forward when he does it. Thus, the shortest distance to escape (assuming you aren't already at long range) is straight through him to his back. As soon as you see the circle charging, double dash behind him and you should be fine. Theseus actually does a very similar move that can be avoided the same way.

[Mysterious Sir Knight]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

As mentioned the pillars can block the javelin, and if you are a decent distance away I'm pretty sure you can just walk sideways and be fine.

For the circle sweep, it is important to note that Hades takes a big step forward when he does it. Thus, the shortest distance to escape (assuming you aren't already at long range) is straight through him to his back. As soon as you see the circle charging, double dash behind him and you should be fine. Theseus actually does a very similar move that can be avoided the same way.

I actually had the exact same thought, to dash through him. And it didn't quite work for me because of 2 reasons, first he would change his attack direction if I was too early. And second I didn't take the double dash upgrade. I instead took the one that increases damage after a last second dodge. Its probably the only reason I was able to consistently get to Hades, because the extra 50% made up for when my build ended up with awful damage output.

[Suntorias]

Purely reactable attacks only don't make for fun action games long-term. You made 10 runs so far, people enjoy this game for hundreds.

You say you want to git gud, but then say "I want it to be the opposite of what Dark Souls is like". Those 2 don't go well together.

The problem is, if you can just react to everything, things become stale pretty fast. Learning is mastery. It might not be your preference, but this line of thought is what the best action games have been designed on.

[Wolfe]

Theseus is a pompous ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Take out Asterius first as he is easier to deal with, plus when you get theseus about half way he calls upon the gods to help him (whether or not you already killed aserius.) As far as his javelin attack: dodging around the edge using the pillars for cover is the best thing. plus there is a target that shows where he is aiming and it will stop right before he throws it. As far as fighting Dad, and his sweeping attacks, the best thing to do is to look for Hermes boons that deal with either extra dashes, or the one that gives you a speed boost after you dash, either way it allows you to get out of his range once he does the attack (actually nice to have for the thesesus and asterius fight also to avoid their attacks). If you don't get those boons, the next best thing to do is to run towards him before he attacks, so you can dash in the opposite direction as he swings towards you, this way you can get out of his attack range and then counter after.
As far as the kind of dodging the game implements....I don't have any input on it. It is what it is, Me personally I just learn to deal with each game and its mechanics. The Git Gud in this game isnt so much about dodging but how well you can build your skills through the run with what you're rng givin. there are builds that deal with taking damage rather than dodging it. Or you can use the sheild, I hate that weapon personally, but a lot of people like it. The best advice I can give is to test out more boons and mixes of those boons.

[Mysterious Sir Knight]

Originally posted by Suntorias:

Purely reactable attacks only don't make for fun action games long-term. You made 10 runs so far, people enjoy this game for hundreds.

You say you want to git gud, but then say "I want it to be the opposite of what Dark Souls is like". Those 2 don't go well together.

The problem is, if you can just react to everything, things become stale pretty fast. Learning is mastery. It might not be your preference, but this line of thought is what the best action games have been designed on.

The statement "if you can just react to everything, things become stale pretty fast." is straight up wrong for me, so speak for yourself.

Allow me to list some of my favorite titles, in which I can hardly think of any timed reaction avoidance mechanics:
Terraria: 2800h The bosses don't use timed attacks, still perfectly fun to fight em.
Vermintide 2: 1400h (You might not know this game but its basically Melee Left4Dead with dodging and blocking mechanics) no enemies use Timed Avoidance, and I'm still playing this game around daily, even after 1300h
DOOM Eternal: 900h
Alien Swarm Reactive Drop: 850h (Likely never heard of this one either, but its a source-mod turned into a game because it was so much fun, just like the Stanley Parable. Its a Co-op, fast paced, tactical, top-down shooter against aliens.) No Timed Avoiding here either.

And about my two statements about Git Gud + I want it to be the opposite of what Dark Souls is like. My opinion of DS should be obvious, I hate it. The whole stigma with DS is "Git Gud!", to me it feels like "Memorize, Memorize." and I don't think that is fun in the slightest.