Final fight is overtuned gatekeeping, makes further gameplay boring.

[Rogue Zamboni]

Hades fight is way overtuned.

Great game up to this point but I totally lost interest here. I enjoy some difficult games but when it's unbalanced enough so that entire game is trivially easy / blowthrough / boring slog cakewalk, every run (I'm at 40+ new) except for *one fight* and it's like 30-40 mins of play to even get up to it to try it again, meh. Save this stupid difficulty wall crap for NG+ / replays.

It's not even "in reach" - the one time of ten or so tried I got him to second phase, the second phase lasted about 5 seconds. The time between his attack signals and attacks is just too quick for some people's twitch, in both phases (especially his sweep move, which does 1/4-1/3 bar damage with significant investment in dmg mitigation and life). If that's you, you will never finish this game.

It doesn't help that all meta progress pretty much stops right around the time you get to it, so there's literally nothing you can do if you're not some kind of practiced gamer... it's just not accessible to most people, and I didn't think it was supposed to be "that kind" of game.

It doesn't help that the difficulty wall was added at release, as the completion of a game EA backers already were into...

[Anderson]

It's not that bad, really. But you do need to learn to avoid his hits, as he does a LOT of damage. You can't just tank him (unless you have one of those upgrades that let's you heal when you hit).

If you think that fight is hard, boy does it get worse with a certain contractor upgrade......

[Washing Machine]

It's only hard until you learn the fight.

His moveset isn't that big. He's not random either, if you're close to him, just don't attack until he's done attacking, get a couple hits in and be ready to dodge. The sweeps you just want to dash away from where he's swinging. Skulls are negated as a threat if you have deflect of any form, but alternatively circling around him works well enough.

Just be patient, going ham isn't a good idea on papi unless your build is ridiculous enough to get away with it (and I've lost plenty good runs thinking I can just be greedy and trade hits until I win lul).

[Syraniss]

Yea, you just need practice. Spend 5 minutes running away watching his attacks and learning or something. I think a lot of us find him to be one of the easier parts of a run.

[Eizo]

I had a hard time with Hades (the boss) in his second phase the first few times I faced him. Now I beat him 9 out of 10 times (I die when I have strange/bad builds paired with Heat levels that amalgamate into tough cookies).
Really, the final boss becomes routine when you've grasped how the game works.

You could also take the safe and slow route (and also very boring imho), where you pick the Aegis as your weapon (the shield, any aspect), and just block & bullrush until you manage to wittle Hades down. Gonna take a long time, but is as safe as can be.

[AaronBurr42]

On the whole, I actually feel more zen when I get to his second phase. It feels easier to read so just careful planning is enough to get me through. While I do feel that Hades (Boss) is more difficult than the others, there is god mode and stuff so I don't mind.
Also it does help to reinforce the game's story, since gods are supposed to be incredibly powerful and the only reason you can even beat him is with assistance from Nyx, Achilles, the Olympian gods, and everyone else who helps you.
Also, Aphrodite's call deals like 2500 dmg on full charge, which is easier to get than some. It's super useful on this fight, just make sure you don't use it right before the next invulnerability phase. I also find a lot of success with either Skelly's or Eurydice's charms, for a bit of extra leeway.

[Tactical Drongo]

So...you just want to vent in peace?

[Washing Machine]

Originally posted by nonadvanced:

Y'all with the "it's so easy git gud" are really totally missing my points. Not asking for advice on how to finish it either, I've already put it down, thx. Just leaving feedback.

It's a roguelike and a video game, and it's the last boss. Of course the meta progress ends there, you aren't going to need anything after this fight.
There is an easier mode if people are struggling.
I just don't see the issue. Everyone needs to win first try? I mean, I got stuck on learning Heroes fight way longer than I did on papi.

[Washing Machine]

Originally posted by nonadvanced:

Heros gave me no trouble at all, ever. I lost to them first time and never again, finished with each weapon... So that's super-weird, and I don't get it at all. I believe you I guess, but it doesnt make any sense to me.

Welcome to video games.

Sometime you just get stuck on something that others have no issue with, and visa versa. You shouldn't cry nerf on everything immediately though.

By meta you mean stuff you keep on new runs? Because that's still a thing with mirror unlocks and weapon aspects and upgrading keepsakes and heirlooms and finding new ones and so on. I got the impression you meant that your character isn't getting some drastic new amazing boons anymore in the final floor.

[Xeno]

It's pretty easy to stack some hp, keep unlocking upgrades with keys til you get the one that gives you HP when you start, then use the keepsake from cerberus that gives you HP (I start the run with the gold one as I dont need the extra xp pre furies fight, then swap to the HP one afterwards).

Also get your 3 (or 2, third is expensive) deaths uhh.. the revival mechanic thing lol.

Hades was hard as ♥♥♥♥ for me at first too, but that's cause tbh most of the time the rest of the ♥♥♥♥ is kinda easy-ish. If you can do thesus and the bull you can do Hades. It's just about learning it, with that much HP and deaths advance rebirth thing, you should have a lot of hp to play with at that point. I'd say one of the biggest things that helped me with the hades fight the first time I beat it, was to not neglect hermes upgrades. Getting a +2 or +3 extra dashes makes his spin move SUPER easy to dodge, you literally can 9/10 just spam dash away when you see his circle. Alternatively you can get the one that gives you movement speed when you dodge, but I feel like the extra dashes are better.

When he throws pots down, keep your distance from him and try to prebreak the pots, that way you dont accidentally get caught in one, and in P2 ALWAYS be ready to quickly dash behind one of the two pillars. If you're ready for the beam at all times you should never really get caught in it, even on my last run through where I had a short ass dash cause of a spear hammer upgrade, I was able to make it to the pillars. It's really just about learning it and prepping. Use all the HP bonuses you can get until you learn the fight, gives you a nice cushion to play with while you get used to him.

I'm with you on the thinking I would never get past him to start getting the aspect unlocks until one run everything just clicked for me, and now I've beaten him 6 times in a row since the first time I beat him. Just practice practice practice

EDIT: Also imo, don't go out of your way to kill the skulls, if they're all on one side, just stick to the other, or even if they're all spread out, just be ready to dodge through them, dodge INTO the circle not away from it, don't get hit by the boss a time or two because you're trying to kill a skull, only to not kill it and get hit again.

ALSO when P2 starts, he always does a nova (that cant be ranged afaik, so be away from him and ready to dodge).

Lastly, always try to get a call ability, they are SUPER useful for that fight. Ares call does AMAZING damage, I was hesitant at first thinking it looked low, but it was hitting him for around 1200+ on a full call bar. Artemis is deceptively good, since it doesnt DO damage, but it gives you 12+ (depending on rank) seconds of invulnerability basically. So if your build does a decent amount of damage you can pump a lot during it.

[Steel]

Using "gatekeeping" invalidates your feedback in my eyes. It's a scrub vocabulary word used by people who think they're entitled to finishing a game.

[GeminiEclipse]

I use the Godmode option to deal with the difficulty. I'm at about 40% damage reduction. I'm not a god gamer. I don't have the reflexes of a 16 year old Broodwar pro.

So I use the game option to make the game easier. Other better players can do heat 20 with one hand tied behind their back if they want to.

[Kalil]

I'll agree with the OP. I can reliably reach the final boss (the champions get me about one run out of ten) without God Mode. I have managed to beat him /once/, with an absolutely perfect set of boons and God Mode at 32%. Given how much content is locked behind him (Titans Blood!), it feels.. bad.

[Washing Machine]

Originally posted by nonadvanced:

Other games that are not rouguelites that are super-difficult that I've played and finished and loved (say, Celeste) let you get right back into the action / difficulty crux and have at it again.

Dead Cells I kept dying most of runs trying to figure out how to fight the Hand and getting back there for another attempt was like 30-40minutes, twice the run time of this game.

BOI many versions ditto with whichever final boss you picked.

This all sounds like just the phase where you want to blame the game for not figuring out how to do something yet. If you get stuck on something, it is what it is, try to learn it. That's how video games work. I ain't alien to the idea of getting a bit salty, but usually if you just keep playing you'll look back at this thread in embarrassment.

[Zoneseek]

I suggest spending most of the run preparing for this fight. When you get a boon choice, don't go for the one that might make killing chariots a bit easier. Go for the one that reduces damage at low health points or increases damage to single targets. Build for the final fight, it makes both the lead up more challenging/fun and makes the final fight more accessible!

My favourite for killing hades is athena & hermes dash boons. Having 5 reflective dashes makes it really hard for hades to hit you with anything...

[Noway]

Well, I've had some builds with which I could tank him during the entire fight (well I still dodged the lasers).
400 hp + 3 rebirth with upgraded charm (-40%+ dmg) and some other damage mitigation. The athena special which shoots 10 arrows can take a whole 3rd of his life, and with so much hp you can use it many many times.