[GAMEPLAY FEEDBACK] Exagryph's Hidden Aspect has a misleading primary fire.

[qawal]

Turning its Attack into a laser beam is a really neat idea at first because of the things you THINK you can do with it. At the time I thought it'd be insane to have an Athena Boon equipped and have a crazy anti-projectile beam.

But to my surprise this is what I discovered:

The beam itself doesn't have a hitbox. the single pixel at the tip of it is the only thing that has one.

Unlike Exagryph's default bullets, the beam's hitbox doesn't travel from the barrel...

Once you fire it, the one pixel with the hitbox APPEARS at the farthest point and only deals damage when entities disrupt its line of sight.

ENEMY PROJECTILES DONT COUNT AS "ENTITIES"

So if you fire at projectiles, it won't interact with them unless you back away and have the tip of the beam touch em. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

making the entire laser beam visual ironically... hehe... pointless. It acts more like a flashlight than anything else.

___________________________________________________________________

[ O ] are hitboxes
[ > ] is for motion
[ - ] is void
[ | ] are objects
[ {{ ] enemy projectiles

Your traditonal beam, light saber, or flamethrower would have it like this:

OOOOOOOOOOOOO

Exagryph's bullets will behave like this:

O>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And Lucifer's beam only has this:

----------------------------O

Beam colliding with stuff:

---------------O|------------

Beam activated against projectiles that passed the max range:

------------{{--------------O

___________________________________________________________________


What do you guys think?

Should this be a thing we just have to git gud with?

Or does it deserve a rework? at least with how the hitbox work?

[KDXanatos]

This reason alone was what kinda killed the aspect for me. Not being able to break projectiles like every other weapon in the game seems like a huge step down.

[Uli Minati]

I'd call it a balancing feature: Laser has perfect accuracy, is hitscan, has higher rate of fire, and even increases damage with successive hits.

[qawal]

Originally posted by Uli Minati:

I'd call it a balancing feature: Laser has perfect accuracy, is hitscan, has higher rate of fire, and even increases damage with successive hits.

That's pretty true, I guess the idea for a laser in the game wasn't sound to begin with. Because making it fun to play will render it too powerful, and balancing it like so will render it too under powered.

I think they should just rework its Attack entirely because it's such a waste not to compliment its hellfire Special. The idea for the Aspect is pretty cool, it's just really clunky in practice.

I'd like to see it turned it into a Borderlands 2 plasma caster, a high fire rate SMG with slow moving projectiles OR turn it into something like Team Fortress 2's Dragon's Fury, a flamethrower that fires single-shot projectiles.

[Sir Chaos]

This is a bug, imo.

[qawal]

Originally posted by Sir Chaos:

This is a bug, imo.

really wish they would address this, or at least respond as to why it's like this.

[Non-Lethal Gamer]

honestly i felt the same, I didnt feel like the weapon was bad or anything just sub-par and in need of quality of life changes, come to think of it, most of the 4th hidden aspect weapons are niche. the sword is good as ♥♥♥♥ ngl my favorite one so far, but Guan Yu's was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ especially from launch its impossible to use even on low pact terms, Beo's shield is underwhelming as well since a heavy attack and slower shield bash is way worse compared to how they did the heavy moveset for arthur's greatsword. I havent gotten around to trying the bow yet but I might later on. malphon and the heart seeker are by far the worst base weapons right now IMO

[qawal]

Originally posted by Sharpie Fumes:

Beo's shield is underwhelming as well since a heavy attack and slower shield bash is way worse compared to how they did the heavy moveset for arthur's greatsword. I havent gotten around to trying the bow yet but I might later on.

Beo is pretty tricky to use, you will depend a whole lot on its Cast Bull Rush~
there's a technique I call "Rush Juggling" where you hit right-click WHILE rushing and alternate between Cast Crystals that pop in and out of the shield. Works extremely well with Demeter Boons.

She has the boons "Explode Upon Cast" and "More Dmg & Resistance with 0 Cast"
loading the shield counts as "casting" so rushing in while hitting right click will allow you to do 2 explosions with one rush. loading all your Crystals in the Shield also counts as "0 Cast" so it goes real well with Beowulf's overall game plan.

Though I do agree that the shield throw feels out of place. I hope you can also activate the cast using the throw.

Rama on the other hand is also great~ it changes the bow's playstyle completely into a fast paced crowd control weapon just like Exagryph. It quickly turned my most hated weapon into my top 4.

But like the Spear and Rail, it also depends a lot on Daedalus upgrades to be incredibly powerful. Thankfully there's a lot of Daedalus upgrades that has good synergy with Rama.
Hope you have fun with it~

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by Sharpie Fumes:

honestly i felt the same, I didnt feel like the weapon was bad or anything just sub-par and in need of quality of life changes, come to think of it, most of the 4th hidden aspect weapons are niche. the sword is good as ♥♥♥♥ ngl my favorite one so far, but Guan Yu's was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ especially from launch its impossible to use even on low pact terms, Beo's shield is underwhelming as well since a heavy attack and slower shield bash is way worse compared to how they did the heavy moveset for arthur's greatsword. I havent gotten around to trying the bow yet but I might later on. malphon and the heart seeker are by far the worst base weapons right now IMO

Beowulf shield is scary strong. It casts your bloodstones at the end of its charge attack with no embed. So take the 3 with pick up. Load up all 3, charge into enemy during vulnerable moment. EXPLOSION! Pick up bloodstones. Repeat.

[Aumires]

What do you mean with all those crazy complicated things with Beowulf's shield? Get with a hammer the chargable shield throw and start bonking enemies with 500 something damage!

But yeah, as a rail user, L's aspect is kind of a weird one as it is way more about laying the orbs and watching stuff die than shooting. Or at least I dislike the laser cause it either empties too fast or doesn't hit what or how it should... and indeed not cancelling projectiles.

[qawal]

Originally posted by Aumires:

What do you mean with all those crazy complicated things with Beowulf's shield? Get with a hammer the chargable shield throw and start bonking enemies with 500 something damage!

But yeah, as a rail user, L's aspect is kind of a weird one as it is way more about laying the orbs and watching stuff die than shooting. Or at least I dislike the laser cause it either empties too fast or doesn't hit what or how it should... and indeed not cancelling projectiles.

It's complicated when you read it, sorry x) but in practice it's just getting the right God to give you some boons and occasionally holding M1 and mashing M2 at the right time. Why stand around waiting to throw a burst damage when you can BECOME the burst damage with every step you take? xD

Rail is my second favorite weapon~ Im glad to have a Rail main agree with this. Hopefully the devs consider reworking Lucifer.

[Aumires]

After today fidgeting more with L's rail, I got a hangover plus weak on Attack and Special, adding the triple shot and infinite chamber and got way more used to setting stuff and actually blowing it up with the help of the spread. I also leveled it to max because it IS an interesting aspect and the explosion damage is much better (100 base)

Still, being a beam indeed still confuses me with what it can do and I just find it plainly not fair to not being able to delete projectiles. If it is due to the increased DPS of the beam, then the infinite chamber at least should restore that capability back...

And yeah, Beo's charge is massive indeed. I just found it hilarious to be wrecking stuff in ways much better than the bow can't even seem to reach.

[qawal]

I also tried the Pierce Daedalus upgrade yesterday. It certainly acts more like laser with it, but still no collision against enemy projectiles. :(

Now Im absolutely sure that this is an oversight.

[Norroar]

Except you're neglecting an important aspect of combining Lucifer and Athena. Your characters front count as constantly hitting, meaning while the beam does not reflect projectiles, your body will. This also applies to attacks by melee enemies; as long as you are shooting, you will deflect both projectiles and melee attacks that reach your front.

[qawal]

That is actually a great observation that I admit that I never noticed. But sadly, it still doesn't change the fact that the visual is misleading, and that it doesn't follow the same rules of all of Zag's long range attacks despite looking like it should.

Exagryph's normal bullets can deflect EVEN if the enemy projectiles are touching it's line of fire from the sides. Same with the spear throw and the range improvements that Daedalus can give to Stygius and Malphon.

I guess if you're pro laser and you think what I said shouldn't really bother anyone, do you think the laser should stay the way it is? if not, what are some reasonable improvements you think they should add?

[Norroar]

I understand that it subverts your expectations (it did mine too), however I do believe the current iteration to be stronger in terms of power. Due to the auto-targeting mechanics, you are effectively invulnerable - depending on the foe, of course. It just means you can't do shenanigans, such as returning projectiles that are perpendicular to your line of fire.

Of course, assuming the reason it isn't working as expected is due to technical limitations, there is always the option of retaining the old mechanic, in addition to also reflect projectiles that is visually touches.

I simply think the niche (to me) situations where you would want to reflect projectiles that aren't targeting at you, don't outweigh the power that comes from its current iteration. This is especially noticeable if you have both Deflect & Infinite Ammo combined. You can, without a doubt, kill every boss and most enemies, deflecting every single hit. Especially fun against the last boss :)