For what it’s worth...

[Sir Chaos]

Until release I am officially giving up on using the bow, and if it doesn’t change on release I just won’t use it for short of suicidal runs. Even with shared suffering that main attack is stupid, and I don’t like hoping only on specific upgrades to not suuuck.

I am not alone here.

Please, Devs, fix this thing. If this game goes to release with this bow, I will not be honestly able to recommend it without noting that for me and plenty others it’s impossible to complete.

[Fifty+&Shady]

Originally posted by Sir Chaos:

I am not alone here.

That's right. You're not.

The bow is officially my least favorite weapon to use in this otherwise wonderful game. Trying to play through a pact of pain run with it is way too...painful.

[C4RNIVOR3]

Originally posted by FortySomething:

The bow is officially my least favorite weapon to use in this otherwise wonderful game. Trying to play through a pact of pain run with it is way too...painful.

OP sounds like they're talking specially about the 4th aspect of bow, Rama.

Even with shared suffering that main attack is stupid, and I don’t like hoping only on specific upgrades to not suuuck.

Shared suffering is a trait of Rama, not the bow as a whole.

The bow actually isn't as bad as many people like to make it out to be, a lot of the dissent around it comes down to differing playstyles. I used to hate bow when I started playing and found the base aspect painful to do runs with, but I enjoyed it much more playing Chiron and Hera aspects. Hera runs especially are quite fun to me. Rama is in a weirder place though, it has potential to be really good, and I do like it more than most of the 4th weapon aspects but it feels like it has more caveats to getting a good build going.

[PanOrc_TopG(Panocchio)]

git gud bow is fine!

[Sir Chaos]

Rama has a chance, with it's special, but I have indeed tried with all of them.

It's been hundreds of failures, all of them boring.

[Morphic]

Originally posted by C4RNIVOR3:

The bow actually isn't as bad as many people like to make it out to be, a lot of the dissent around it comes down to differing playstyles. I used to hate bow when I started playing and found the base aspect painful to do runs with, but I enjoyed it much more playing Chiron and Hera aspects. Hera runs especially are quite fun to me. Rama is in a weirder place though, it has potential to be really good, and I do like it more than most of the 4th weapon aspects but it feels like it has more caveats to getting a good build going.

Same.

Though I do feel it is "the worst" weapon out of all options and it doesn't help Rama Aspect is one of the most finicky to actually get going. Sub Heat runs the whole thing is fine and dandy. Heat 10+ runs and it really does feel like you need X or Y in order to not have a horrible time.

Personally I think Hera Aspect is "the best" for it simply because it can be quite consistent and has massive burst potential. In theory Rama is cool and powerful but, IMO, in practice it is far from it. It feels more dependent on RNG than the other 3 aspects. I think the major problem with it compared to other 4th aspects is... it's basically the same "gameplay" as the other Bow aspects. IMO, it doesn't inherently "open up" new ways to use the Bow or stack Boons. Whereas Guan Yu lets you be suicidal and Beowolf lets you "cast build".

Really disappointed with Rama Aspect.

[Zymeth]

Bow is great, Rama is dead to me.

[Rana]

They should just nuke current rama effect and remake whole thing from scratch, not even stupid amount of buff going to fix Rama's bow.

[Zwiebelchen]

Honestly, I can easily finish runs with Rama, but it feels stupid to use special 100% and almost never use the regular attack. They should make the thing from scratch.

Just a spontaneous improvised idea:
- the former special becomes the new regular attack. Attacking stacks up a debuff (up to X stacks) to every enemy that's being hit (the debuff doesn't do anything yet, though)
- the special deals X damage to every enemy with the debuff and the debuff is cleansed

[Sir Chaos]

I suck at the gun, too, but it’s possible enough. Note: Every aspect short of Lucifer and the first one fully improved reads, “Run out of ammo and die”.

Improving the bow is questionable at best but allowing a tap attack of any sort would be in the right direction. Hold down for power attack, like the trident.

The only reason I made it to the surface (to get absolutely creamed) was playing Rama and completely ignoring the “main” attack. All that just to point and fire.

Nobody should have to unlock the secret aspect just to have a chance, or quit a million times hoping for flurry attack specific and workable buffs just to have some dps.

Hera is funny but buggy. It should inherit the newer flare buffs Beowulf uses. Short of a leveled Dionysus boon that dps is mediocre at best and if you don’t want to only use one cast every three seconds you are in for chasing your loose casts around. It might be a more functional bow mechanic but it suffers from the same slow shot.

I am happy to reccomend this game, but the struggle here is a losing grind with a majority of users dissatisfied if not given up. It might be better to just not have a weapon there.

[Morphic]

Originally posted by Sir Chaos:

I suck at the gun, too, but it’s possible enough. Note: Every aspect short of Lucifer and the first one fully improved reads, “Run out of ammo and die”.

Haha, I feel the same way. I mean, the aspects are great and it is really powerful... I just suck using it as I rarely pay attention to my ammo or I just build stupid with it.

Originally posted by Sir Chaos:

Nobody should have to unlock the secret aspect just to have a chance, or quit a million times hoping for flurry attack specific and workable buffs just to have some dps.

You really don't... basic Zag aspects are perfectly winnable, even on Heat runs. IMO, it's just finding a weapon that augments your playstyle then screwing around with Boons until you find stuff that works. E.g. I absolutely hated the Sword, Spear and Bow at first just didn't really feel right for me and the Boons I kept trying felt like crap with them. When I unlocked Shield and Fists, I started having a better time. My first win was with Shield because I was so bad at the time with Dash, being able to simply Block everything made me survive encounters I'd die or lose tons of HP to. Then there was trying out Boons I thought were crap, like Zeus's Lightning on Attack. At the time I thought it was crap since it was low damage, I thought it'd function like a weak splash so I never picked it up... until one Fist run when I was frustrated and blindly picked it. Two encounters later I realized how massively wrong I was, the Boon spikes your DPS so high with fast attacking weapons...

Originally posted by Sir Chaos:

Hera is funny but buggy. It should inherit the newer flare buffs Beowulf uses. Short of a leveled Dionysus boon that dps is mediocre at best and if you don’t want to only use one cast every three seconds you are in for chasing your loose casts around. It might be a more functional bow mechanic but it suffers from the same slow shot.

IMO, Hera aspect is perfectly fine where it sits. You can do so many things with it and if you take the Mirror upgrade that increases your Blood Stones to 3 you can Burst like crazy. I used to hate Ares's Bladevortex Cast until I was using Hera, grab Demeter for Slow or other utility Boons and you can just shred a lot of things.

Yeah it sucks you need to pick up the stones every few seconds but if you are moving/Dashing around this shouldn't be a problem.(Unless you totally miss a shot in Asphodel lol)

Originally posted by Sir Chaos:

I am happy to reccomend this game, but the struggle here is a losing grind with a majority of users dissatisfied if not given up. It might be better to just not have a weapon there.

If you are really having a problem... just turn on God Mode. It's there for a reason and the "Bonus" starts off small and increases gradually. So it's not like it's some "I win, EZ mode" button. There isn't really much of a grind initially though it seems like it. Personally, once I read some of the Mirror Upgrades, I literally expect every run to lose but focused on Darkness pickups. So big whoop I lost, but I brought back 100+ Darkness to use on upgrades to help me get farther. Did that for ~40 runs until I made it to the Final Boss and died.(didn't realize he had a second phase lol) Finally won on ~46th run and basically win 3-8 times in a row now and I always make it to the Final Boss. Now I'm working on winning at higher Heat.(Highest I've done is 14 lol) Took me a while to get the hang of the game and have a basic understanding of Boon/Weapon Synergies.

TLDR: IMO, it isn't really that bad. Though I agree it feels like Rama should be reworked or something. Maybe get inspiration from SMITE's Rama character? Like turn your Dash into a "roll" that shoots 360? Or maybe make the Special fire an Arrow that you pickup/apply buff to boost your next Attack?

[Swirler]

Bow existence is pain. :(

Originally posted by Sir Chaos:

I suck at the gun, too, but it’s possible enough. Note: Every aspect short of Lucifer and the first one fully improved reads, “Run out of ammo and die”.

.

With the gun there's a pattern you play with.
Fire off the magazine then run/dash away, as you're reloading fire off the special grenade. By the time you've aimed and shot you'll have reloaded and can recommence shooty shooty.

Repeat as necessary.

Upgrading the grenade special attack is super powerful on that thing, With the right daedalus hammer you can get some very powerful aoe damage going.

[Sir Chaos]

I have beaten the game with each of the mirror and heat conditions. I agree that it’s a play style and skill thing; a friend of mine beat Hades heat 0 for me, right before my eyes, if the assurances of other users isn’t enough.

For what it’s worth I have pumped more time and effort into this game than most games ever get and my experience is that the frustration has passed hopelessness for the bow. If this is it’s final form I am willing to concede that I cannot complete this part of the game, and I am not sure if I want to.

I am not alone here.

[squat_instructor]

Zagreus bow, being a weapon with a built in crit, is one of the best weapons you can have for high heat, so it seems like a personal issue. Which is fine, I have issue with fists but acknowledge them being viable for non-extreme heat ranges but I just can't stand them. You will find people that hate each weapon but it doesn't mean they need reworks or being touched at all.

[begulinggg]

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

Zagreus bow, being a weapon with a built in crit, is one of the best weapons you can have for high heat, so it seems like a personal issue. Which is fine, I have issue with fists but acknowledge them being viable for non-extreme heat ranges but I just can't stand them. You will find people that hate each weapon but it doesn't mean they need reworks or being touched at all.

This. Zag's bow is one of most potential aspects in the game.
Bow has a lot of potential, but truly reliant on hammer upgrades.

[C4RNIVOR3]

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

I have issue with fists but acknowledge them being viable for non-extreme heat ranges but I just can't stand them.

Funnily there's someone in the group of high heat (40+) runners that mains fists, primarily Zagreus aspect, and they've got a 45 heat Talos clear posted on their yt.