What am I missing with Guan Yu?

[Yojo0o]

I'm not sure if the aspect blows, if I'm not doing it right, or some combination of the two.

Aspect of Guan Yu was the first hidden aspect I unlocked, and I used it to mixed results. The special seems worse than the normal special, so I focused the build on heavy attack and dash-attack damage. The theme of the aspect seemed logical to me: Heavy damage, low health, kill ♥♥♥♥ before it kills you, get good at dodging. I was able to take it all the way to Hades, but couldn't finish that fight without taking too many 1-shot or 2-shot deaths to him.

But then I unlocked the Aspect of Arthur... and I know people are pretty frequently citing it as one of, if not THE best aspects in the game, but from a design philosophy I feel like I'm missing something. Excalibur kinda has the same idea as the Guan Yu spear, in that it gives you a slow but powerful attack, except the attack seems stronger and with a wider area than the spear, AND instead of nerfing your health, it actually gives you more health.

This all just leads me to ask if there's something about the spear that I need to know to make it work. I just can't really reconcile the design philosophy of sword vs. spear and the difference in HP between the two.

[MULTIPASS]

If you hold attack, it charges up a spinning throw that heals you for +1 every time it hits an enemy. There are several hammer upgrades to make this ability larger, faster, and stronger.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Clone Trooper OG-8172:

If you hold attack, it charges up a spinning throw that heals you for +1 every time it hits an enemy. There are several hammer upgrades to make this ability larger, faster, and stronger.

I did know that. It doesn't seem especially worth the life loss of selecting the weapon in the first place. Is that really the crown jewel of the weapon? Color me disappointed.

[MULTIPASS]

It's the only self-healing ability in the game as far as I know. It spins rapidly and can heal multiple times on a single target. If it hits a group, it can heal you for every enemy in the group on each pulse, so you can heal to full rapidly. I don't love the aspect, but the effect works. Give it a try.

[.//slayer]

Originally posted by Clone Trooper OG-8172:

It's the only self-healing ability in the game as far as I know. It spins rapidly and can heal multiple times on a single target. If it hits a group, it can heal you for every enemy in the group on each pulse, so you can heal to full rapidly. I don't love the aspect, but the effect works. Give it a try.

You can get a self-heal on the sword with a Daedalus hammer upgrade. But it comes at an equally heavy price and I haven't found it to be worth the investment.

[gruetoo]

There is a Daedalus upgrade for the sword that gives a heal on hit effect in exchange for max HP, but that is RNG if you get it, and also riskier due to the low range of the sword in comparison to Guan Yu's projectile.

[VoiD]

Athena upgrade, quick charge daedalus upgrade are nearly essential.

Enjoy being invincible and wiping out entire rooms just by holding a button, also, the HP bar never lowers.

Since it hits so hard you probably won't need anything else for damage, so you can just stack defenses.

Don't try to use the weapon before it's maxed

[DD The Pumpkin King]

I've used it once and really liked it but but geeze my abs were sore from all the tensing. missing 70% health didn't leave much room for mistakes.

For hammer got the Wide radius/damage and normal attack reach bonus.

Thankfully it hit like a truck and an epic Demeter boon was enough to make it work.

[Kosher Pork ✞ Jesus Saves ✞]

Guan Yu is an aspect where you really, really don't want to use it unless it's maxed out. I seldom lose runs with it myself and it's my go-to for the spear usually.

I focus on Demeter for attacks with it to slow enemies and go for the triple dash strike + any upgrade to the whirlwind, and Aphrodite's special or cast to nerf enemy damage. That makes it easier to land its whirlwind attack and evade, granting significant damage and survivability with a health loss that's not really significant by the end of the run considering the benefit. These two also grant great survivability boons on top of that to further mitigate damage.

[HypetheKomodo]

Guan Yu combines range with hard hitting attacks, with the proper build it can shred through foes while always having the life leech attack handy for healing with the only resource being an enemy being present

not having to pay for healing is pretty huge, but you do have to mind the severe HP penalty, you may want to prioritize HP pick ups/boons if you're not confident in the lack of HP, or waiting until the weapon is fully upgraded to minimize the penalty

[Gregor]

I've played it purely around the special.

The great thing about it, which the other Varathas don't offer, is there's no need for a special 2 activation for you to be able to fire again. That's something you could get with the right daedalus upgrade(I assume it was called exploding spear). The aspect does start with something reminding of it.

The hitbox was, not sure how it is right now, realy big as well, so you had a broad space you could cover with the special. Essentially dodging around the room and piercing it with the special until nothing was remaining except you.

I could ignore basic attack about everywhere and did never bother to focus on it, except on rare occassions in Styx where there where guaranteed safespots against vermins and I needed some HP.

I would still use it , and consider focusing on a critbuild, with something like the keepsake that offers +30% damage to enemies far away as the choice between biome 3 and 4, and avoid putting something on my special except the one from Artemis.

But it's fun and I had a good time clearing the Heat up to 20 a few patches ago.

[Aumires]

The spear throw from Guan Yu is also really strong. I set a Poseidon boon there and focused hammer upgrades and stuff there and it has been my fastest clearing attempt by impaling everything rocketed away at the walls if already wasn't dead when the spear hit their faces.

[Spicy Crab]

I don't think vampiric weapons are worth it, because the last boss deals a lot of damage really fast that you'd die sooner than replenish your lost health. It's bearable with Guan Yu, because it lets you to keep your distance, but the Blade upgrade is simply suicidal

[LaChouette]

Final boss pattern are sufficiently dodgeable that I've been able quite often to end this fight with more health than I started with, using Guan Yu aspect. Add to that upgrades such as Massive Spin or Quick Spin and you have a beast of a weapon.

[kakugo]

This aspect of Guan Yu completely broke my winning streak.

Yes, the spear deals a nice damage, but on the other side the special charge is nigh on useless. I have lost count of how much damage I took while charging it up, not exactly something you want with so few hit points. Yes, there's the hammer upgrade to quicken up the charge but... come on, I have to basically beg for it and by the time I get to the Furies I am already in such bad shape, charged special or not.
Unless I'll get extra lucky with a great boon combination (something I haven't been yet with this junky aspect) I don't see myself even getting to the Elysium boss fight with this thing.

If other hidden aspects are as bad as this one I honestly don't see the point of them,better stick to the proven winners.

[DD The Pumpkin King]

Originally posted by kakugo:

This aspect of Guan Yu completely broke my winning streak.

Yes, the spear deals a nice damage, but on the other side the special charge is nigh on useless. I have lost count of how much damage I took while charging it up, not exactly something you want with so few hit points. Yes, there's the hammer upgrade to quicken up the charge but... come on, I have to basically beg for it and by the time I get to the Furies I am already in such bad shape, charged special or not.
Unless I'll get extra lucky with a great boon combination (something I haven't been yet with this junky aspect) I don't see myself even getting to the Elysium boss fight with this thing.

If other hidden aspects are as bad as this one I honestly don't see the point of them,better stick to the proven winners.

Oh curiosity are you aware you can adjust the range of your charge up by dashing our of them? I've noticed a lot of players don't realize they dash in and out of their combo/charge ups.

My favorite so far is the hidden sword aspect. Even at lvl 1 its really strong and the slow speed made me learn timing and distance as well as set up combos. It doesn't punish bad play the way Guan Yu does