Casting feels pretty underwhelmng.

[Thysios]

This is purely first impressions as I haven't played long.

But the first thing I noticed was how bad casting feels. The ammo mechanic was pretty lame and the upgrades I've seen for casting haven't been that great. The whole ability just feels underwhelming to use, at least compared to your general melee attack. Which looks, sounds and feels much more powerful.

[Foog the 2st]

Haven't really tried to make casting work myself but I barely even use it for the damage buff as I don't really see a noticeable difference worth using it. My bonus is only at 30% so far. That seems like a huge damage bonus but I swear I can't even tell. The buff falls off so fast it's really just kind of annoying to try and use on bosses. Chasing down ammo seems like a bad distraction and good waste of time too.

I just made it to Hades for the first time and got him to 50% without using a cast once. If there's anything beyond him, it doesn't seems like using cast is even necessary.

edit: I used cast on Hydra for the damage bonus.

[NeedtoDie]

Cast is mostly useless in the early stages of the game (and killing Hades would still be early game, as you can do it in a couple tries and still not know very much about the game).

It becomes a lot more efficient and fun to play when you unlock weapon aspects, related mirror upgrades and when you know more about boons and how choose your build.

[webmetalreese]

I tested a little on skelly today using 1,2 and 3 casts - they don't stack, but they initially take 50 and using sword base damage without buff is 60ish with buff around 90 so ya know it DOES something i just can't be bothered to remember to keep spamming it lol

[Thysios]

Originally posted by Kill'em ALL:

4 times out of 5 I just treat casting as a cumbersome way to get 50% damage upgrade against bosses. 1of5 is either Dio+Zeus duo farming or Hera bow, though latter's pretty underwhelming for me as well. Overall casting really IS underwhelming unless you both build for it specifically from the beginning of the run AND are lucky with the boons you get. There is just too much randomness involved. The ammo mechanic is the biggest issue for me as does not fit the rest of the gameplay and slows it down needlessly.

Dionysus cast is probably the only one that I'd consider worthwhile without supporting boons IF it didn't lower your dmg by 50%. Unupgraded Aphro works too short to be worthwhile if cast's your only source of it. The rest is just some extra damage but often subpar compared to the rest of your arsenal. Oftentimes I finish the run without a single cast-related boon, it's just better to use slots for anything else, really.

One of the last runs I ended up with 8 blood shards (2 x chaos + Artemis legendary) and no good way to really use them because due to lack of cast upgrades available the damage was just too mediocre compared to my main attack.

Pretty much agree with everything here.

I think the ammo mechanic is the biggest issue I have too. It just feels so out of place and is annoying to keep track of.

[wildfire393]

For a normal run, I basically only cast against bosses to proc the +50% damage bonus from the Mirror.

But once you get later into the game, there's an aspect of the Sword and an aspect of the Bow that synergize with cast, which can make cast builds much more powerful.

The Sword in particular is extremely good, because your special can dislodge cast ammo from the enemy. This means you can cycle casts into a special and maintain a consistent stream of damage. It also gives +50% to cast damage at max level, which is very powerful.

The Bow's upgrade is a bit less stellar. It lets you load your cast into your attack, which you can stack multiple times. It also reduces the drop time for ammo to as low as 5 seconds (from 16), enabling you to recover and reapply your casts much faster. It lacks the Sword's damage bonus, and it takes a little longer to recover your ammo, but on the upside you can safely apply your damage from across the room.

There's a number of boons that improve Casts as well. In addition to the base boons that upgrade and use the slot, there's two Hermes boons, Rapid Cast and Greater Recall, that let you auto-fire your cast and recover from the ground automatically respectively. The latter is key to a Bow build since you don't have to get closer to recover your shots. Athena also has multiple cast-buffing boons, including Exit Wounds (extra damage when disloged), Burst Shot (fire a secondary projectile), and Fully Loaded (+3 ammo).

The big thing to note about Casting is that the boons that improve it increase its base damage. Most boons increase % damage, which is always additive, but the fact that base damage increases means that any % increases (like the Sword's bonus and Chaos boons) are multiplicative instead of additive, which can get very high.

[krikroune]

you should use casting with the gift from Aphrodite which basically turns it into a shotgun...you'll never think the same about casting

[PhantomRise]

In a good build, your button pressing should look something like "Cast x3, then Special/Attack, rinse and repeat until Call is charged", with Cast always being first to weaken enemies. I felt the same way at first, but it becomes vital to clearing huge hordes of enemies faster so you don't get overwhelmed. And I've stumbled upon plenty of great casting builds where my cast far outshone my attack and special in damage. But yeah, the default cast itself is pretty weak and underwhelming. I don't care much for Dionysus except for his poison on Adamant Rail (with other supporting boons, this was a great run) and his lob cast. Try it out with a good cast build. Oh yeah, and that with the Duo boon with Zeus where it casts lightning for a while also, so good. K sorry I'll shut up now.

tl;dr - casting gets really good, and becomes necessary.

Originally posted by krikroune:

you should use casting with the gift from Aphrodite which basically turns it into a shotgun...you'll never think the same about casting

Oh yeah, and this is probably the best cast.

[Try that on my Sagat]

I'll agree that casting feels terrible mechanically.
Does seem pretty strong to me though, unfortunately.

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by luckless:

I disagree with "don't focus early game"

If you get a purple poseidon cast it will one shot 80% of enemies until floor 3...


it's really strongest early...

People don't mean early into a run, they mean before you have triple bloodstones and +50% damage from having them in enemies. Before that, it's weak. After that, shenanigans ensue.

[krikroune]

I think many people don't even try to get gifts that improve casting, so they never see how strong it can get...

[ZeppMan217]

Originally posted by krikroune:

I think many people don't even try to get gifts that improve casting, so they never see how strong it can get...

That's because relying on a charge limited cast is inefficient when you have unlimited attack and special which, by the way, also get stronger with proper boons.

[krikroune]

Originally posted by ZeppMan217:

Originally posted by krikroune:

I think many people don't even try to get gifts that improve casting, so they never see how strong it can get...

That's because relying on a charge limited cast is inefficient when you have unlimited attack and special which, by the way, also get stronger with proper boons.

That's your opinion, i've found many ways to use it efficiently ;)

[Thysios]

Originally posted by krikroune:

I think many people don't even try to get gifts that improve casting, so they never see how strong it can get...

I think the main reason I dislike casting is because the ammo mechanic feels really annoying. Even if it can get really effective, the actual mechanics involves still feel dumb.

I have had a few powerful cast builds lately, but that doesn't mean I dislike the mechanics involved any less.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Augus:

In a good build, your button pressing should look something like "Cast x3, then Special/Attack, rinse and repeat until Call is charged", with Cast always being first to weaken enemies. I felt the same way at first, but it becomes vital to clearing huge hordes of enemies faster so you don't get overwhelmed. And I've stumbled upon plenty of great casting builds where my cast far outshone my attack and special in damage. But yeah, the default cast itself is pretty weak and underwhelming. I don't care much for Dionysus except for his poison on Adamant Rail (with other supporting boons, this was a great run) and his lob cast. Try it out with a good cast build. Oh yeah, and that with the Duo boon with Zeus where it casts lightning for a while also, so good. K sorry I'll shut up now.

tl;dr - casting gets really good, and becomes necessary.

Originally posted by krikroune:

you should use casting with the gift from Aphrodite which basically turns it into a shotgun...you'll never think the same about casting

Oh yeah, and this is probably the best cast.

On top of the one i already mentioned (Dionysus, Athena), Zeus can be fun. Havn't tried Aphrodite Cast build but now i'm interested.
Plus cast stat modifiers from Hermes, Artemis, Ares, Chaos, etc...
Can be a fine killing machine.

[ZeppMan217]

Having played a few hours more, I have to admit that I was wrong about casting. I've had a few runs by now with some garbage attack/special boons that were carried solely by godlike casts, either by Artemis' massive crits or Ares' homing blades.