Question about Theseus (Subtitle: Am I just bad?)

[epikPhailure]

I just bought this game (about ten hours in) and on my 14th run I just beat Theseus, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that was a battle of attrition. Without spoilers, am I missing anything? or am I on the path of getting good?

[kekkuli]

I'd say you are doing quite well.

[Ruebeus]

Based on what I've seen on Reddit posts, most people seem to take 50+ runs before they are able to do a full clear. Which I think is a bit absurd, but, whatever.

However, Theseus is arguably the hardest boss. So kudos on that milestone.

[Gregor]

It's easiest, if you focus out the minotaur first and be aware of Theseus attack pattern.

You've got time for about 2 hits each time he recalls his spear, the only other option to realy have an easy time with him is something always hitting, like the Artemis Cast, or having something that ignores shields.

[epikPhailure]

@Akihito Kanbara, that's funny, because the last time I looked I saw a whole thread saying anything over 15 runs for first win was not good enough and immediately decided the subreddit wasn't for me, I wasn't feeling that negativity. But thank you, because reddit is what inspired me to post here.

@Gregor, Yeah, this was my second time even getting to him, I finally got the furies fights and medusa down, sometimes I get stuck on Hydra if I don't have a good build but I'm still learning Elysium (The difficulty jump between Tartarus and the River Styx is way less than the jump between Styx and Elysium. I figured out that minotaur was to go down first, I think the frustration is that he just has so much health.

[Gregor]

Originally posted by EpikMaowPhailure:

@Gregor, Yeah, this was my second time even getting to him, I finally got the furies fights and medusa down, sometimes I get stuck on Hydra if I don't have a good build but I'm still learning Elysium (The difficulty jump between Tartarus and the River Styx is way less than the jump between Styx and Elysium. I figured out that minotaur was to go down first, I think the frustration is that he just has so much health.

Yes that Minotaur is like a huge Punching Bag and Theseus likes supporting him, what's realy bad is, if you leave the Asterius alive, while you provoke Theseus to call on one of the Olympians...
Elysium can be tough to handle and it took me some attempts as well on different locations.
Ones you've got an idea how to compete against your opponents the challenge gets more accessable.
Many times it's been claimed towards me, that repittion is part of a way to become a master at the task.

I recall having used 14 Hours to finish my first successfull playthrough

[Shoepots]

If I'm having some bad luck with boons/daedalus upgrades, I sit behind the pillars and focus the Minotaur because Thesus' spear throw can't hit there. If Thesus starts getting close, I move to a different pillar and keep that up until the Minotaur is dead. Having 1 less enemy to focus on makes this fight a lot easier.

[C4RNIVOR3]

Originally posted by EpikMaowPhailure:

@Akihito Kanbara, that's funny, because the last time I looked I saw a whole thread saying anything over 15 runs for first win was not good enough and immediately decided the subreddit wasn't for me, I wasn't feeling that negativity. But thank you, because reddit is what inspired me to post here.

definitely don't listen to that and play at your own pace. there are a lot of people who come into hades with experience from other games of the genre, so there does tend to be a more elitist mindset about certain aspects of the game at times.

as mentioned, target asterius first. you can actually fight him as a solo encounter if you need to figure out how to deal with him. may seem like a dumb thing to subject yourself to when you're already struggling, but the isolated encounter means you can focus on asterius by himself, and beating him in his solo encounter means he starts the duo fight with less health. it's just a lot easier overall to take down asterius first since theseus largely just does his own thing and you only have to pay attention to his target reticule. going after theseus first is tempting, but once you get him down to his last third? bit of health and he calls on an olympian for help, it just makes the fight needlessly complicated trying to avoid getting hit by asterius AND whatever god theseus calls upon.

either way, if you keep at it, you will get it. theseus often ends up being more of a roadblock for people than the furies or hydra do, i've noticed. dont worry about how many attempts it takes you

[epikPhailure]

I have always actually fought Asterius first, I didn't even know it was an option to skip that first fight. They just both have massive pools of health, but it finally dawned on me why I should take a book and breaks/ignores shields.

[Gregor]

Originally posted by EpikMaowPhailure:

I have always actually fought Asterius first, I didn't even know it was an option to skip that first fight. They just both have massive pools of health, but it finally dawned on me why I should take a book and breaks/ignores shields.

If you get a high damage build, you'll notice how squishy Theseus actually is.

[epikPhailure]

OK, I got to Hades pt 2 and had him down to 25% on the first time I met him. I love this game

[Gregor]

Originally posted by EpikMaowPhailure:

OK, I got to Hades pt 2 and had him down to 25% on the first time I met him. I love this game

Took me 4 attempts to respect the shockwave he offers on Revive between phase 1 and 2

[Specific Beef]

Main problem with Theseus is that he auto-blocks attacks from the front.

The usual way is to focus on Asterius, but you certainly can kill Theseus first if you want, or concentrate on getting them both together so that you kill them one after the other in short order.

There are lots of weapon/aspect/boon routes to this. One big one is obviously AOE: Zeus's lightning or Ares's blade rifts, combined with size increases, can keep your damage clocking up on both of them without you having to think too much about what you're doing, freeing to think about otherwise to damage them while the automatic damage piles up. Demeter's Call is great against the pair as well because it has a large enough AOE to catch them both, and while they're Chilled you can give them lots of Backstab damage. The spear with the aspect that recalls the spear on a second Y press ensures damage from behind, so if you've got boons to multiply backstab damage and you're good at keeping moving while firing then you're in a good position to hurt him a lot.

Another problem is the damage Theseus does to you with his ranged spear. A build that's all about Cast damage creates problems for these two because Theseus is so slow. You can use Demeter's Cast with Crystal Beam and just keep dropping a bunch of them in a triangle to give at least one of them a good chance of catching him while you focus on bludgeoning Asterius. It won't necessarily hurt Theseus much but it keeps him tied up.

Once Asterius is gone, Athena's Divine Flourish gives you a deflecting Special. It's pretty much all over once you get to a one-on-one situation against any enemy who relies on their own ranged attack if you have Divine Flourish and the right spear Special since you can just aim at them and spam Y — they can't recover most of the time, and if they do you will send their projectile back at them for even more damage. I don't use spear builds all that much but iirc this is as true for Theseus as it is for those irritating satyr cultists who gob disease at you — the last one is not a problem.

[TT]

Oh man, don't worry. I finished the run for several times already, Theseus is still giving me a hard time. I kinda like this way of the game, as it is still a thrilling experience for you even you have already tons of hours in it.

[Gregor]

Originally posted by Luxury Malcolm:

Main problem with Theseus is that he auto-blocks attacks from the front.

The usual way is to focus on Asterius, but you certainly can kill Theseus first if you want, or concentrate on getting them both together so that you kill them one after the other in short order.

There are lots of weapon/aspect/boon routes to this. One big one is obviously AOE: Zeus's lightning or Ares's blade rifts, combined with size increases, can keep your damage clocking up on both of them without you having to think too much about what you're doing, freeing to think about otherwise to damage them while the automatic damage piles up. Demeter's Call is great against the pair as well because it has a large enough AOE to catch them both, and while they're Chilled you can give them lots of Backstab damage. The spear with the aspect that recalls the spear on a second Y press ensures damage from behind, so if you've got boons to multiply backstab damage and you're good at keeping moving while firing then you're in a good position to hurt him a lot.

Another problem is the damage Theseus does to you with his ranged spear. A build that's all about Cast damage creates problems for these two because Theseus is so slow. You can use Demeter's Cast with Crystal Beam and just keep dropping a bunch of them in a triangle to give at least one of them a good chance of catching him while you focus on bludgeoning Asterius. It won't necessarily hurt Theseus much but it keeps him tied up.

Once Asterius is gone, Athena's Divine Flourish gives you a deflecting Special. It's pretty much all over once you get to a one-on-one situation against any enemy who relies on their own ranged attack if you have Divine Flourish and the right spear Special since you can just aim at them and spam Y — they can't recover most of the time, and if they do you will send their projectile back at them for even more damage. I don't use spear builds all that much but iirc this is as true for Theseus as it is for those irritating satyr cultists who gob disease at you — the last one is not a problem.

You can deflect the spear, either by attack or dash with the right boon.

There are different weapons that can upgraded to ignore shields and there is the cast of Artemis which is targetseeking which is always hitting, her support will as well.

[Specific Beef]

Originally posted by Gregor:

You can deflect the spear, either by attack or dash with the right boon.

There are different weapons that can upgraded to ignore shields and there is the cast of Artemis which is targetseeking which is always hitting, her support will as well.

Very true!

I just find it much more fiddly. A Dash deflect necessitates me relocating, so it's great but it's not as foolproof for a situation like this (but certainly great to have everywhere else in the game) and it's a little harder to keep damage going because of the spatial shift. If the OP is struggling and just wants to beat Theseus, the Special is the best to cheese it.

I tend to prioritise acquisition of deflect skills to Dash first for general protection throughout the game, and then either Cast or Special since a deflecting projectile is much better than a deflecting attack. You can use the movement of a deflecting Cast, since it's relatively slow, to dash along behind it and use it as a shield. Special keeps the foe pinned down. Attack is handy but it's the least good, since your timing is crucial and it only really works in a limited way. Cast deflect is also going to bea great choice after Theseus because they've got the Temple of Styx coming next. zand that whole section is much easier with Cast deflect.