32 Fear thoughts, experiences?

[Tim]

Was wondering what everyone thought about it so far. Gonna write a lot to start things off.

I find we're lacking some "fun" conditions from the first game's Pacts. Obviously we don't get Extreme Measures out the game since those are so much work and add new dialogue, but I'm sad we don't get Benefits Package (perks), Underworld Customs (forced boon selling), or a more gradual equivalent to Routine Inspection (reduced Mirror of the Night options); Vow of Abandon is all-or-nothing and a surprisingly bad deal at only +5 Fear.

One major exception: Vow of Arrogance. Love this one! It draws attention to how freely we get to manipulate boon rarity. You end up being happy with a Common boon since you can convert it into a Heroic... That encourages you to only draft Rare or better so there are fewer targets for that relic... And rarities above Common aren't so bad thanks to Rarify; you end up being guaranteed an Epic or better, functionally, by taking advantage of relics. And it makes Magick potions way more appealing than in normal play.

Vow of Forsaking is an interesting one. Encourages you to spread Gods around. I have more than once screwed myself by greedily choosing the same God over and over in a run and getting forced to take build-ruining Sacrifice boons or Legendaries/Duos that primed my run into oblivion.

Vow of Bitterness is MEAN. I wish you could select this in different tiers to affect 1/2/3/4 biomes. It draws attention to how readily this game throws boons at you, but it's still a kinda "feel bad" pick and affects weapon aspects VERY unevenly. Makes Origination surprisingly risky with all the ways you can screw yourself out of Curses, and so I forsake it on higher heats. Not sure if this is a mistake or not, lol, but focusing on a single core boon gets better results for me that rotations.

I ended up beating 32 Heat with Aspect of Momus on Staff with Aphrodite on the special. I wanna try other weapons, too, but that seemed the most obvious thanks to the surprisingly generous "nearby" distance, the absolutely wild damage bonus, and the inevitability of netting at least 1 Special-affecting hammer.

[A Street Sweeper]

I dont particularly enjoy the vows that just straight make you weaker or remove tools. I would like to see more similar to the one that gives enemies a respawn ghost, or brings in enemies from the next biome.

Giving the enemy more tools is always much more engaging to me than just taking mine away.

[Tiny Tyrant]

It's sort of slow compared to a similarly high heat run; shocking I'm sure in a game that's slower in general. Maybe I should use something other than the single most powerful weapon in the game though.

Momus is so jaw-droppingly busted that it functions perfectly well with no magick, a special boon, and one decent special hammer, either the double tracking projectiles or the bouncing projectiles, even on high fear this is extremely easy to achieve. Even with a million enemies in the room, if you have Poseidon's special boon you can sit in a safe spot and just blast away, stun locking the whole horde.

Melee, in contrast, is practically off the table at this point. Neither the daggers nor the axe put out enough damage to risk getting close, and their ranged options simply don't cut it either, particularly the daggers. Aspect of Charon could work, but unless you get the special cast time reduction it just leaves you too vulnerable for too long.

Bosses become easier than normal rooms on high fear, without extreme measures the bosses sort of feel the same no matter what, which is a shame.

The magick priming is actually pretty easy to work around, and there are some good boons that straight up require low magick to begin with, so it doesn't feel all that punishing to prime your whole magick pool, the biggest thing you lose is hexes, which are lackluster anyway.

[Tim]

Wanted to share a couple non-ideal 32 Heat runs.
Aspect of Charon with Apollo on the cast (definitely worse than Poseidon but it lets you kite a little more easily). I did it without the Special speed-up hammer and it felt VERY scary. Really wish they'd make the default speed of Special channeling higher: https://i.imgur.com/mb2UJVl.png
Aspect of Melinoe on the skull with Blitz on the attack (my logic was that any 2 attacks from the skills can set off Blitz, but it's definitely worse than just putting Aphrodite on 'em: https://i.imgur.com/ozFpeyR.png

Originally posted by Tiny Tyrant:

Melee, in contrast, is practically off the table at this point. Neither the daggers nor the axe put out enough damage to risk getting close, and their ranged options simply don't cut it either, particularly the daggers. Aspect of Charon could work, but unless you get the special cast time reduction it just leaves you too vulnerable for too long.

I think the axe's omega attack is viable, but arguably that's midrange with how massive it is. And you really need the hammer that lets you move as it goes, cuz otherwise you can't handle +20% enemy speed.

The twin knives' Omega is great, too, with Aphrodite. But again, that's a hit-and-run. Staying in melee range is quite painful.

[Secretlemon]

Only done it with the momus aspect cause that thing is cracked and needs a nerf. Who would have thought giving +30 or 40 power to a rapid spamming ranged attack is slightly strong.

That being said im not a fan of the 32 fear runs. Firstly is that rooms are waaaaay harder than bosses. Like enemies needing multiple hits then armor then respawning then being more waves. + Enemies from harder areas and the double damage from first hit just mean that normal rooms are super punishing but bosses are almost the same.
Secondly is that it really gimps build options. Like at 20 fear you can still build around what kinda style you want since you get some wiggle room with say number of hits, healing, magica and that kinda stuff. 32 you need to take most of the options and it really narrows down the number of builds you can do. That being said i dont take the speed modifier which would free up alot of other boons.

So my overall thoughts on it would be some boons are too harsh for their cost, others like magic priming are too cheap. The games also lacking in options to make it customizable but still hard. Like starting with 0 mana cripples omega builds or forces you to rush a good mana regen boon which there arent a ton of.

Overall still doable, I only did it with staff but I could see daggers being viable but just not fun. 20 Heat is probably the highest i would play at for fun atm

[Soulcatcher]

Originally posted by A Street Sweeper:

I dont particularly enjoy the vows that just straight make you weaker or remove tools. I would like to see more similar to the one that gives enemies a respawn ghost, or brings in enemies from the next biome.

Giving the enemy more tools is always much more engaging to me than just taking mine away.

Yep, it doesn't make sense to grind and level up to get stronger and then just nulify it all by setting high level fear.

What I liked most about EM in the 1st game is bosses changes.

[Mr. World]

Weakening or limiting the character as a difficulty theory was never a good idea in the original. It never made sense in this type of game where your main concern and responsibility to make you strong. I've never picked up diminutive heat options, I failed to see how these could be fun in any way. I hope this game doesn't have somethings similar, only at fear 8 now.

[Tim]

The only 32 Heat run I have left is the torch. Any tips...? Finding it way harder than the others. No idea which of the aspects to use—can't get enough boons quickly enough as Melinoe... Moros is very magick hungry, which is difficult to support in the early game while dealing good enough damage to deal with time limits... Eos feels surprisingly terrible thanks to its pseudo-melee focus...

EDIT: I did it! https://i.imgur.com/Ta91J2P.png
I recommend trying Zeus' attack on Eos, then either Demeter or Hestia on the cast to trigger Origination (+50% damage when two curses are afflicted). I'd choose Demeter over Hestia since 1. the Freeze makes normal encounters SO much easier and 2. you don't need Hestia to project casts forwards when you have Zeus already (assuming Vow of Forsaking doesn't screw you over). Surprisingly smooth run!

EDIT 2: Oh, I also made the Hermes godge boon Heroic (25% dodge!) and took the godge boon from Echo, too. Whacky!

[lorenzo_poletti]

Only did 32 with momo staff (busted) and am working on a clear with Charon axe now, looks doable. Daggers might also be ok, was never able to clear anything higher than 16 with torches

[Vigilante]

For me it’s the daggers being able to “parry” anything ( even the 9999 damg chromos p2 aoe ) was op

[Tim]

Originally posted by Vigilante:

For me it’s the daggers being able to “parry” anything ( even the 9999 damg chromos p2 aoe ) was op

Whoa, parry can block unblockable attacks?! That's a great find! Or can you ever block that attack with the axe special, etc...?

[Vigilante]

The danger party is omni directional which is why it works the axe has a clear direction it’s blocking in so would depend what direction they coded that aoe to come from I guess

[Secretlemon]

Originally posted by Tim:

Originally posted by Vigilante:

For me it’s the daggers being able to “parry” anything ( even the 9999 damg chromos p2 aoe ) was op

Whoa, parry can block unblockable attacks?! That's a great find! Or can you ever block that attack with the axe special, etc...?

The parry isnt like the block. The parry is more in line of the frost barrier or guardian barrier arcana. Its just a block any damage kinda deal.

[Ruuubick]

Originally posted by Tim:

Surprisingly smooth run!

Having Selene's heal probably helped lmao

[Rhithik the Valient]

For me, the fun factor of increasing the fear rapidly falls off after about 20 fear. After that point, the combination of restrictions you are under just feels way to punishing, like a single mistake or a couple of bad boons and your run is over. For 32 Fear, I just used Momos and got it over with

[Leaf Breakfast]

I miss extreme measures, middle management and benefits package. Completing 32 fear was more tedious than challenging for me, as most modifiers just straight up take away power instead of changing things up.