Frog Vs Cat

[Vigilante]

so the math is terribly in the frogs favor but i was wondering if anyone ever actually uses the cat?
Frog max hp = 40 hp each Deth defy heals you for an extra portion of this hp so the "effective Hp" provided is massively more than a single death defy that leaves you on 30 hp,
Frog blocks projectiles
Cat sleeps in a corner of the room you can't get to easy and is currently off-screen
frog leaps and damges what he lands on as you move around
cat attempts to attack a few times mostly missing and then hides in the corner
Frog means no need for the minigame for sending souls back for Grasp
Cat means no need for fishing tiny game ( not even the full minigame you get at the fishing pier not sure why this is one way at pier and another outside feels like should have been same game in both places)
grasp vs fish
permanent upgrades for char vs Bones?
has anyone found a use for fish thats not just selling? or found a fish worth a decent amount that's not the same as a few herbs?

i have tried both pets fully upgraded and i don't think i am ever going to use the cat does anyone actually use the cat?

[UNBREAKABLE]

I don't have a lot of time with the cat but Frinos seems blatantly better and more engaging in combat and the longevity of a run. Not sure if he's overtuned or we just don't have enough animals to pick from yet.

[Forblaze]

I don't think either pet matters enough in combat for that to be a factor. It's just a question of if you want psyche or bones. So until you get 30 grasp, use the frog. After you get 30 grasp, use the cat.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

I don't think either pet matters enough in combat for that to be a factor. It's just a question of if you want psyche or bones. So until you get 30 grasp, use the frog. After you get 30 grasp, use the cat.

Frinos gives you extra max health per rank (which makes each of your natural death defiance's more valuable), does damage on his leaps and can tank all sorts of attacks with no annoying mini-game involved. In terms of actually winning a run that still seems better than the cat.

Resource collection is great but it's not going to be a factor beyond a certain point.

[Anderson]

Frog is straight up better. Better total health, block shots. Gathering Psyche vs fish....don't really care. Though, if you need extra bones, nothing wrong with farming them a bit with the cat.
But for combat effectiveness, Frog > Cat

[Forblaze]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Frinos gives you extra max health per rank, does damage on his leaps and can tank all sorts of attacks with no annoying mini-game involved. In terms of actually winning a run that still seems better than the cat.

It's all marginal at best. I've won plenty of wons with both the cat and the frog and barely notice the difference.

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Resource collection is great but it's not going to be a factor beyond a certain point.

Okay, well, are you at that point? 30 grasp? Maxed relationships? Made all of your arcana cards epic? Got all of the nightmares you need for aspects? Until you have, resource collection is probably going to be more valuable than letting Frinos being able to eat Hecate's hex or whatever. The differences in how they deal damage and how they provide you health all just comes out in the wash in my experience.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Forblaze:

Okay, well, are you at that point? 30 grasp? Maxed relationships? Made all of your arcana cards epic? Got all of the nightmares you need for aspects? Until you have, resource collection is probably going to be more valuable than letting Frinos being able to eat Hecate's hex or whatever. The differences in how they deal damage and how they provide you health all just comes out in the wash in my experience.

Well, yeah. You get there very fast when your runs are successful instead of dying.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

I wanted to make the cat work. But man it's a pain in the ass to use.

[Tim]

The cat's very frustrating. The extra 30-40 health from Frinos makes a huge difference thanks to percentage healing... The compounding value of fully stocked stocked, high-health Death Defiances in the final battle... The rarity and expense of replacing Death Defiances, and how much easier it is to lose one in the early game with Toula... All the Aphrodite boons that work worse with the cat (I'm not saying they're AMAZING boons, but you'd be surprised how they add up!)... The frog's more frequent attacks pop barries for you sometimes... All this stuff compounds the higher you turn the Fear up.

The cat would need to give you a Death Defiance comparable to a Luckier Tooth for me to consider her, I think.

[AvgJoe45]

With the new change, cat + fishing pole = 500+ bones worth of fish per underworld run. That's 1 nightmare every 2 runs not even counting bone doors and minor fate rewards. 'Nuff said.

Of course for better outcomes during runs, frog is way better.

[WolfLink0370]

I think it depends on my mood, I find there is no wrong option personally... just depends on where I'm going and what weapon the Grave Thirst wants me to use.

Usually I think Frinos is better for mid/long range to be a safe spot... Toula meanwhile would be better for close range builds, as if I can't get in I can let them do a bit of work until I can find a chance.

As for gathering, I don't tend to take Toula to the Surface, not a lot of fishing opportunities in the (current) final area there.

[Watcher Rat]

If you have Smithy Sprint from Hephaestus, the cat is pretty decent since you'll have an excuse to be sprinting all over the place anyway. Since that's never guaranteed, Frinos does tend to be a better passive choice.

That said, the cat can actually pile a lot of damage onto bosses if you run past it consistently.

[Secretlemon]

As someone who maxed both and only uses cat atm frog is waaaaay better. Like its such an absurd difference its just sad. Frog blocks projectiles and gives 40 hp while still doing damage. Cat on the other hand does waaaay better damage (which is more annoying to use) but is still minor past the early game, offers a 40hp death defiance (which is way less valuable than 40 hp due to hp synergy) and doesnt really do much. I like cat cause its cute and dont really need to worry too much but frog is just the better combat pet unless you desperately need damage (maybe super high fear needs it to beat the timer?) Even then tho its probably not worth

To make cat equal in combat it would need to actually focus on the damage aspect to differentiate them as tank vs damage. This could be done by just making cat always attacking, do aoe damage, break armor or do % damage to bosses. Even then its liable to be worse but atleast its something

[Soulcatcher]

Cat is only useful if you need extra DD. Most of the time it's just gonna stay AFK even when you're being killed, no help at all lol. Most of the time when it does something usefull it was activated unintentionally while I was doing sprint to dodge attacks or trying to get to next enemy faster.

[Fringehunter7719]

Whilst I agree that Frinos is more powerful than Toula, it might be worth making a couple of minor math corrections.

When maxed Frinos grants +40 max HP, which is 40+16+16+16 = 88 HP with 3 death defiance. Toula grants a single death defiance with 40 HP, not 30. So that's worth 40 + however much overkill you save on that life.

While 35-40 HP probably isn't a massive deal when you may have 450-650HP to play with by the final boss the higher max HP interacts with several boons, arcanas and any % healing, which magnifies the gap somewhat.

Toula does 4 hits of 99 damage each when activated, but does target and attack an enemy with each attack. Frinos does 30 or 50 damage per hit (I'm not sure which) but doesn't target enemies at all, so it seems pretty rare to actually see it trigger (not being able to quickly make it trigger is why I don't even know the value).

[Vigilante]

For me the cats attack misses almost all the time as soon as you take any +move speed fear effects