First impressions are meh

[Hexeract]

Haven't played much and I know it's still i development, so maybe it's not fair but I'm very like warm on this game from what I've seen so far.

The game feels off balance from the start. I feel off balance from the first second I start playing. I don't know who this girl is or what is happening. "Where's Zag?" is all I can think. From the first couple minuets of Hades a kinship is immediately forged with Zag through story telling and character development. It's brilliant. It tells you everything you need to know to know what's going on and nothing more. However with Hades 2 you're thrown into combat and you don't know why, or who you are, and I had no motivation at all not to just die, I don't know the stakes and I don't care.

Then after first dying a little is explained but not much, scraps of a story, a confusing picture of her family that makes it look like she's zags daughter somehow. We hear about Hades being killed, but again where's zag? Are they still working on the story and intro? Is this area going to make sense and feel like home in the first game? Because I just feel off balance and confused. There's items to collect while battling, what are they? I can't tell by looking, they're not easily identifiable irons, just looks like mismatched crap. Why am I collecting these? Why should I care?

Hades is a very emotional experience. From the characters, relationships, storytelling and plot, emotional resonance drives the game. The game play is fun, good even, but it's not amazing, and it doesn't need to be. It's simple and mindless and the story keeps you engaged in the mindless, sometimes even tedious, rogue like game play. They did a great job keeping the mechanics fresh and wringing extra game play out of a game that would otherwise be tired after 30 hours with added challenged and post game story lines.

Now with Hades 2 we're missing all that. Who is this girl and why should I care besides her being the sister of someone I like? Zag had charm, class and a bit of an edge, Epic rizz. This Melinoe feel generic, like a stand in. She's bland and polite. Makes me think of "well behaved women never make history" She just seems like a kind polite boring person/god. Mary-Sue alarm bells are going off. The game play has also become more complex. There's more crap to collect, a magic resource system to deal with, and a bunch of other extra crap like alters and Cauldrons. Sometimes extra crap takes away more than it adds unless it's very very well balanced and introduced slowly (which it isn't) A good game would have introduced these mechanics individually, by characters, weaving them into the story as you went so you don't get overwhelmed by a bunch of crazy crap. Here it's just "oh here's this thing, you can use it. oh and this thing is here too. Are they going to add all that in or is this how they plan to leave it? Because if this is how they're leaving it then this game is going to suck.

I'm sure people will say "you need to keep playing, it gets good" But a game should be engaging from the start, then get better. Right now it's coasting on good will from the first game, and if I hadn't played Hades I'd be getting my money back for this game right now. It's boring and the game play is bogged down with too many excessive mechanics out the gate. I'm hoping I'm just here too early and they're going to make it all work in the end, but if not I hope they really consider my points here because this are real issues.

The graphics and art work is gorgeous. The sound design is wonderful (not sure how they'll top the music from the first game though). The sets are a little too busy though and can be distracting in combat with so much to look at. I think for non-combat rooms that can work, but I'd prefer they scale back the detail a tad in fighting rooms.

TLDR:
Melinoe needs a personality
World, characters, and plot need to be established in game before first combat run, why am i fighting?
Each new element needs to be explained by a character, as the game progresses not just thrown in my face on a UI screen
Zag should be playable or at least an NPC in this game (i'm assuming he shows up after a dozen hours or so or at least I hope so (huge missed opportunity if not)

[Crow Buddy]

"Mary-Sue alarm bells are going off."

I'm not looking to argue with your general feedback, but this particular phrase, "Mary Sue," was already discussed at great length in this forum. There's no way you prolly could've known, being new, so I'm filling you in.

Long story short, "Mary Sue" story is quite gross upon further inspection. The story depicts Mary Sue, a female child, a minor in the Starfleet, who is lusted after by her much older, very creepy, Senior Starfleet male Captain. The language is not subtle.

It's not a good shorthand to use anymore. It's a term that needs to be retired from use, though I do understand your broader point.

[★Miko]

Translation: "I just found this game Hades and it's very awesome. Oh there's Hades 2? I gotta try it out!.. Why is it not the same?? Who are these new characters?? Bring back Zag!"

All your yappin definitely doesn't make any sense nor offer intellect if you only watched the Hades 2 trailer 2 years ago or more. Bits and pieces were there to implicate what's currently happening in this game.
Granted that there are bugs that affect gameplay but we're still in EA but SGG is on the right track of cooking.

[三Akiyama]

Yes, it's just a worse Hades 1 in many aspects. Sadly the devs lost their way.

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

I know this topic will go downhill, but let me try.

The first Hades also started right into action and you had no idea who Zagreus was.
Oh! Then you find out that he's son of Hades.
Oh, he's a nepo baby who doesn't want to do his work.
Oh, he wants to find his momma, the poor boy with daddy issues.

Honestly, you start off Hades knowing nothing to very little about Zagreus either.


Hades 2 starts off in a similar fashion: you know very little about Melinoe. Then it doesn't take much to get the basics: most of Hades was assaulted by Chronos and now Mel needs to help them.
The same way you soon found that Zagreus wanted to reach Persephone.

Then the story developed further. And the story is still developing in Hades 2 since, well, it's not a finished game yet.

Now it's up to you to see whether you keep your mind open and see Hades 2 as its own thing, its own characters, own gameplay, own pros and cons and enjoy yourself with a new experience.
Or get frustrated because Hades 2 isn't just a DLC for Hades 1.

[Biscuits! Werewolves!]

This first post is like...three old discussion threads that have been done and dusted all wrapped into one.

Zagreus didn't become that compelling until you found out he was trying to get to Persephone. The story and relationships added a ton of weight to the narrative heft of H1. H2 can't give us any of that delicious story yet - it won't come until full release. So we get a lot of establishing characters traits (but no interesting changes yet), a lot of world set up, but the actual /story/ hasn't even started yet. It's the thing I'm anticipating most on full release.

And while I love Hecate, I do admit that H1 has a leg up on establishing it's setting because Hades is there to talk sh*t on Zag every time he comes back. Because in H1 your home base is Hades' work-from-home office and things are pretty mundane. H2 your home base is a refugee/war camp and aside from Nemesis being all surly, it's a pretty solid "we all have to work together" vibe.

So I like it fine for it's gameplay. I like H1 for it's gameplay too but it was absolutely the unfolding narrative that drove my interest to keep going. I didn't "get good" at H1 until long after the story was done. Whereas for H2 EA it's reversed - I've trounced all the in-game challenges and now I'm waiting for the narrative.

And thankfully the games have enough distinctness to their combat styles that H2 isn't just a copy of H1 (thank goodness). Although I miss my Hestia Rail and pretty much all the Bow aspects, I also love the Black Coat and Sister Blades.

But OP - unless you hate reading - then check out some of the old threads. There's about a year's worth of conversation you missed and all of your thoughts have been expressed by others and responded to.

Just keep playing. Or don't! You'll either warm up to H2...or you won't!

Peace!

[AquariaMoon]

It is very striking to me how many people instantly bonded with Zagreus and aren't connecting to Mel when the start of the games are basically exactly the same in structure. I'm not saying misogyny is definitely a factor but I think a lot of people should maybe reflect on whether or not misogyny is a factor in why they instantly dislike Hades2.

Originally posted by Hexeract:

Melinoe needs a personality

-Mel has a personality, it says more about you than about her that you can't see it.

Originally posted by Hexeract:

World, characters, and plot need to be established in game before first combat run, why am i fighting?

-World, characters and plot weren't established in Hades1 before the first run, why do they suddenly need to do it here? She LITERALLY says 'Death to Chronos' the first moment you load in, like Zagreus says 'I'm getting out of here'. Maybe that's a hint??

Originally posted by Hexeract:

Each new element needs to be explained by a character, as the game progresses not just thrown in my face on a UI screen

-Why? It's not a bad criticism, but why do you need to be hand-held by characters while praising Hades1 which handles its explanations THE EXACT SAME WAY?

Originally posted by Hexeract:

Zag should be playable or at least an NPC in this game (i'm assuming he shows up after a dozen hours or so or at least I hope so (huge missed opportunity if not)

-Zag already shows up in the game, obviously he's going to play a part in the story progression, Mel is literally fighting to save her family. I doubt he'll be playable and I hope he won't be playable. He already has his game.

I guess I'm mostly ticked off at your hypocrisy. You're praising Hades1 and then criticise Hades2 for things the first game did too. I really think you should try to do some reflecting as to why that is.

You're allowed to have a preference for the first game. You're entitled to your own opinions, obviously. But I don't think you've found the real reasons as to why you dislike Hades2 yet because what you've outlined makes no sense to me. Especially not compared to your praise of the first game when it sounds like you completely misremember how that game gets going.

[Specific Beef]

Maybe you were a bit distracted? They explain lots of times what Zag's relationship is to Mel, and Mel's to the rest of the family. She is in the same position as Zag in the family tree, but she has been hidden since she was a baby and trained since early childhood to become the saviour of her family. So if she seems like a polite, obedient god... well, yeah? She does grow as she finds her power, and conquers her own self-doubt along the way.

I'm not sure how far you've played, or why you thought Hades is dead, but bear in mind that the story is spaced out much more than it will be in the final product. Hades 1 was the same; Early Access players experienced a different flow because the progression was being rationed to keep us playing longer and so the story beats were further apart, whereas the v1.0 player got the intended (and more compact) story.

[vassilj]

You just need to play more as the game is better written and deeper (stoywise) than its predecessor, besides being double the size and with more complex strategies.

[Crow Buddy]

Originally posted by AquariaMoon:

Originally posted by Hexeract:

Melinoe needs a personality

-Mel has a personality, it says more about you than about her that you can't see it.

I guess I'm mostly ticked off at your hypocrisy. You're praising Hades1 and then criticise Hades2 for things the first game did too. I really think you should try to do some reflecting as to why that is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya-TS_AqZPU

[Hexeract]

"Mary Sue term needs to be retired" Lol get over yourself. It perfectly describes a boring blank character that anyone can self-insert themselves as.

As for the rest of the comments ya'll either didn't know what was great about the first one, or you're just tragic fan-bois. "This game is different than the first one" If by different you mean "bad" then yes. It feels ultra corporate, all the soul and personality has been raked clean from literally every single character in the game. Very poor immersion, total lack of humor, it just falls flat in every way. If you like it you like it, but you all honestly sound like you work for the company and are running promo.

[Hexeract]

"-Mel has a personality, it says more about you than about her that you can't see it."

This comment says you don't have a personality so you relate to her. She's as basic as any character I've ever seen in a video game, or movie.


"I guess I'm mostly ticked off at your hypocrisy. You're praising Hades 1 and then criticize Hades 2 for things the first game did too. I really think you should try to do some reflecting as to why that is"

My whole point is that Hades 1 did them well, with better writing, better pacing, better immersion, better tone and better characters. They were immediately competing. Mel is just "i shall politely avenge my family."

-Why? It's not a bad criticism, but why do you need to be hand-held by characters while praising Hades1 which handles its explanations THE EXACT SAME WAY?

A tutorial is hand holding. Nowhere did I suggest that. You're arguing against the most basic tenants of good game design. Showing, not telling, as mechanics are introduced. It's so fundamental.

I've played for like 7 hour and I'm still bored to tears. Seeing the Sirens kind of broke me, a fight and music that's insulting anachronistic and immersion breaking, it's a sequence that looks like it's ripped straight from river city girls (great game) and it's actually not that bad, it just doesn't belong in this game at all. There's a LOT wrong with this game.

[Crow Buddy]

Originally posted by Hexeract:

"Mary Sue term needs to be retired" Lol get over yourself. It perfectly describes a boring blank character that anyone can self-insert themselves as.

As a matter of fact, you can draw a straight line from the "Mary Sue" origin story and a scenario depicting statutory rape:

"Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky," thought Mary Sue as she stepped on the bridge of the Enterprise. "Here I am, the youngest lieutenant in the fleet - only fifteen and a half years old." Captain Kirk came up to her.

Captain Kirk: "Oh, Lieutenant, I love you madly. Will you come to bed with me?"

Mary Sue: "Captain! I am not that kind of girl!"

Mary Sue is 15 years old in this story.

It reveals a lot about you that after learning the ugly, rapey, misogynist origin of the phrase, you're doubling-down and still wanting to use it.

[Hexeract]

Originally posted by vassilj:

You just need to play more as the game is better written and deeper (stoywise) than its predecessor, besides being double the size and with more complex strategies.

Better written maybe, but without compelling and interesting characters and voice performances it can be the best plot in the world and it won't be compelling. I'm 7 hours in and I'm still bored.


"It is very striking to me how many people instantly bonded with Zagreus and aren't connecting to Mel when the start of the games are basically exactly the same in structure. I'm not saying misogyny is definitely a factor but I think a lot of people should maybe reflect on whether or not misogyny is a factor in why they instantly dislike Hades2."

Structure has nothing to do with it. A compelling character is often compelling immediately, the voice actor is also amazing. It might not be mels actors fault that she's so bland, she's following direction. But have you notice how Artemis has also been stripped of her personality in this game? Have you noticed that everyone is kind of bland? Odysseus, a guy who went though the greatest adventure of all time is white bread. No quirks, no trauma, no PTSD, nothing at all, just "hey how's it going" That generic "i'm a scary ghost, lol just kidding i'm a disinterested hipster girl" character that I've seen a million times in other media. I mean good lord it's just so uninspired and lazy.

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

You may have played something else and believed that that was Hades.

Your criticisms towards Hades 2 still make no sense. Like... Hades 2 has the same voice actors from Hades 1.
Why are you complaining about the voices? 😅

You didn't like the game, that's fine. But you are pointing at the same characteristics Hades 1 had and saying that you don't like them at Hades 2.
It's s just weird. But that's fine.

[Crow Buddy]

Originally posted by Neo NiGHTS ®:

You may have played something else and believed that that was Hades.

Your criticisms towards Hades 2 still make no sense. Like... Hades 2 has the same voice actors from Hades 1.

I don't see how there could be any mistaking it. The OP played Hades 2 and is accusing Mel of being a "Mary Sue."

Let's cut the b.s. though, this OP isn't worth it.

OP has another active thread called: "Even Chaos thinks Melinoe is a boring character."

They are obviously trolling and already picking a fight.