Overcomplicated level up system

[КЕФИР]

Too many resources, grinding and farming. You even gave a pickaxe. It feels like I'm playing a mobile donation trash game, and not a single-player adventure.

A leveling system in such games is needed to compensate for the player’s skill and give him the opportunity to play with builds, and not waste the player’s time and prolong the game.

[Neo NiGHTS ®]

Publicado originalmente por КЕФИР:

Publicado originalmente por Neo NiGHTS ®:

But Hollow Knight is a complete different genre!!!!

Well no. Its Souls-Like which very similiar to roguelike.

Still, Hades is neither souls-like nor Metrodivania.

Your comparison is still invalid.

OK, I tried to be nice but now I'll leave you to your thoughts.

[Artemis ❤]

I feel like resource grind and unlock is about the same across the Hades games, the difference is how much control the player is given over progression order as dictated by the available resources

in Hades 1, a fewer number of resources were used to access a larger number of things, which gave the player more control over the order they unlocked things. for example, Cthonic Keys were used for both Mirror of Night upgrades AND used to unlock weapons. you could spend your keys wherever you wanted, stick with the sword as your only weapon and focus on mirror, sure. ignore the mirror and unlock every weapon, why not? the risk associated with this level of control is that players are able to hinder their own progression by making bad choices. every weapon is reasonably balanced against one another and all are capable of reaching the surface, so you don't really actually NEED to unlock any of them to get your first win, where as Mirror upgrades are extremely powerful and absolutely WILL help you win your runs with extra dashes, death defiance, privileged status, etc. on the other hand, mirror upgrades aren't very fun or sexy, they just make you stronger, where as a new weapon is a shiny new toy to play with, there's nothing more exciting than your first run with a new weapon! so while it may be optimal to focus entirely on the Mirror, using keys on weapons will make the game more fun, and it's better to have more fun over a longer game than to win faster but more boring. so really a balanced approach is best, unlocking a steady stream of Mirror upgrades mixed in with periodic weapon unlocks, but it's up to the player to self impose this ideal progression path. this is also true within the Mirror, Darkness upgrades all abilities so you get to choose the order in which progression occurs

in Hades 2, there are more resources which mainly focus on doing only a single thing. Ash and Psych upgrade your arcana, metals unlock and upgrade your weapons, and seeds upgrade your cauldron. this means that player choice is stripped away, you no longer get to choose between a new weapon or a new arcana card, your arcana resource ONLY gets you a card and your weapon resource ONLY gets you a weapon. this means that most players will now be steadily drip fed a consistent mix of meta-progression upgrades that make victory more likely in addition to the fun of periodically unlocking a brand new moveset to play with. once again this is also true within the arcana themselves, with every card upgrade eventually requiring additional resources beyond simply moon dust players will be forced to spread their progression more evenly by what is available to them instead of getting tunnel vision on a single upgrade

I feel like the amount of hours to get from 0% to 100% meta-progression is about the same between the two games, however the resource design changes what the 1% - 99% portion looks like. Hades 1 had a more free form and loose path from point A to point B, where Hades 2 has a more structured and predictable path. both approaches have their merits and I don't think one is objectively better than the other, it just depends if you prefer a total player freedom approach which allows players to potentially sabotage their own experience or if you want a more restrictive but curated and predictable experience that the devs can guarantee will be fun and meaningful throughout

[Crow Buddy]

Can we please leave Hollow Knight out of the discussion? I suspect this is a symptom of Silksong withdrawal. Look, I wanna play it, too. We all want to play it.

Back to the topic:
I just upgraded my favorite weapons first, then took a little bit longer with the other weapons. Really no biggie. H2 has been super generous with providing resources, especially once Mel's familiars are helping out with collecting them.

There is a form of a "leveling" system with the Arcana, those are direct upgrades for Mel, and help her to become quite strong. Was that not enough?

[MrButtermancer]

This is a rogue legacy game. Incremental progress over many runs. It's a hallmark of the genre.

[Nik]

The very same resource gathering element you dislike is something that drew me to the original Hades. It was the numerous things to collect and upgrade that made each run interesting. You always level up at least something, and the more skilled you are the quicker you get there. If this is your issue with the game, the Hades franchise most likely isn't something you'll end up liking. To each their own.

[КЕФИР]

Publicado originalmente por Nik:

The very same resource gathering element you dislike is something that drew me to the original Hades. It was the numerous things to collect and upgrade that made each run interesting. You always level up at least something, and the more skilled you are the quicker you get there. If this is your issue with the game, the Hades franchise most likely isn't something you'll end up liking. To each their own.

No, it too grindy. At Hades 1 I was fun 66 hours.

[Jerac]

The only thing which is annoying for me is the "moment" system; it sometimes causes a situation where I need to wait one additional run to use resource which I have just picked up. I get that there are bath salts, but not quite enough to cover every case :|

[КЕФИР]

Publicado originalmente por Jerac:

The only thing which is annoying for me is the "moment" system; it sometimes causes a situation where I need to wait one additional run to use resource which I have just picked up. I get that there are bath salts, but not quite enough to cover every case :|

Mobile game logic.

[Rankiry]

Some games deserve to be artificially prolonged, and some of us are glad to be able to stay for a while and enjoy. If you are not appreciating it, move along.

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

Publicado originalmente por ★Miko:

Damn. You could've just said "skill issue" and be done with it. Pity.

Useless comment

[arnoo77]

The only similarity rogue like and souls like share is that they both have "like" in their name lmao
Also you obviously never played a mobile game, as no one is this good :)

[cyanure]

i agree than the ressource system can feel tedious and overcomplicated, i hope they will do something about it.