The Dash Delay

[shlongbongchewy]

It is hard to compare one game to another but in this case I feel it is needed.

-The Dash Delay-

In the first Hades game... when the dash button is pressed there is an imperceptible delay between the input of your Dash key and the execution of the Dash animation.

In this Game, Hades II, there is a very clear delay between the Dash input and the Dash execution. This feels bad, bad enough that upon first booting up the game I just wanted to play the first Hades instead.

"Skill Issue" "They want you to sprint" "Learn the new system" "It's not that bad"

MY favorite part about Hades 1 is how crisp and tight the gameplay is. You can outplay most opponents with well timed dashes.

In Hades 2 it feels like i'm playing with latency. Like a multiplayer game with 200+ ping. This latency is the only thing keeping me from enjoying this Early Access.


TL;DR

The Delayed Dash is lame, Input lag is not a feature, bring back Zagreus dash.

[Knavenformed]

It's an upgrade in the game just a bit later on to make it instant

If you get used to it beforehand it's a trade off between a build slot or an easier dodge
It's pretty cool

[UNBREAKABLE]

Have you tried using the upgrade that makes it instant? Or did you write this essay not knowing that exists?

[jbrd_]

Spam dashing was Zag's thing and made it easy to cheese encounters. Mel's dash sprint is a welcome change that's made even better with the tarot upgrade (accessible after 2–3 runs).

[Iniquity]

use the arcana upgrade that makes it instant

[Fire walk with me]

Has anyone noticed any issues with I-frames? I don't usually have issues with the dash, but lately I swear I have been smack in the middle of the animation and still taken a hit from biome 3 boss/other random mobs. Could entirely be a me/skill issue, but something seemed slightly off the last few runs and not even every time. Also and just my opinion hitboxes as a whole could use some extra love.

[la sangre]

you're trying to play this like it's hades 1, dodging a ton while attacking to make progress, but you don't and can't do that with melinoe, her toolkit isn't made for agility, it's made for bursting everything, spam the hell out of the omega cast, it immobilizes everything and does a ton of damage by itself.

(also if you want to cheese chronos, pick wolf howl as your hex, get the invunerability upgrade for it and just spam omega attacks while close to him)

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Fire walk with me:

Has anyone noticed any issues with I-frames? I don't usually have issues with the dash, but lately I swear I have been smack in the middle of the animation and still taken a hit from biome 3 boss/other random mobs. Could entirely be a me/skill issue, but something seemed slightly off the last few runs and not even every time. Also and just my opinion hitboxes as a whole could use some extra love.

If you're using the swift runner card then that does reduce the amount of iframes you have during dash. Not sure otherwise though.

[slonka]

Originally posted by Iniquity:

use the arcana upgrade that makes it instant

I have the Arcana upgrade, and it’s still not instant (not in the way Zagreus had it). I played to games back to back just to compare, and Zagreus’s dash feels instant. It was very reaction based, so if you didn’t react fast enough, that’s on you. But with Melinoe, i feel like I’m wrestling my own controller, because the enemies have fast attacks, and I am amble to react fast enough, and yet she doesn’t. Also, I’m pretty sure Zagreus did not need to have a whole upgrade slot just to have his dash be immediate. That Arcana upgrade felt less like an upgrade and more like a solution to a created problem. Why do I need to waste a whole card just to slightly improve the input lag?

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by slonka:

Originally posted by Iniquity:

use the arcana upgrade that makes it instant

I have the Arcana upgrade, and it’s still not instant (not in the way Zagreus had it). I played to games back to back just to compare, and Zagreus’s dash feels instant. It was very reaction based, so if you didn’t react fast enough, that’s on you. But with Melinoe, i feel like I’m wrestling my own controller, because the enemies have fast attacks, and I am amble to react fast enough, and yet she doesn’t. Also, I’m pretty sure Zagreus did not need to have a whole upgrade slot just to have his dash be immediate. That Arcana upgrade felt less like an upgrade and more like a solution to a created problem. Why do I need to waste a whole card just to slightly improve the input lag?

At least the iframes have no input lag, only the movement itself does.

[jbrd_]

Originally posted by slonka:

Originally posted by Iniquity:

use the arcana upgrade that makes it instant

I have the Arcana upgrade, and it’s still not instant (not in the way Zagreus had it). I played to games back to back just to compare, and Zagreus’s dash feels instant. It was very reaction based, so if you didn’t react fast enough, that’s on you. But with Melinoe, i feel like I’m wrestling my own controller, because the enemies have fast attacks, and I am amble to react fast enough, and yet she doesn’t. Also, I’m pretty sure Zagreus did not need to have a whole upgrade slot just to have his dash be immediate. That Arcana upgrade felt less like an upgrade and more like a solution to a created problem. Why do I need to waste a whole card just to slightly improve the input lag?

The iFrames are instant; I just tested this today. Also, the card costs a measly 1 Grasp — hardly a “waste of a whole card”.

[shlongbongchewy]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

Originally posted by slonka:

I have the Arcana upgrade, and it’s still not instant (not in the way Zagreus had it). I played to games back to back just to compare, and Zagreus’s dash feels instant. It was very reaction based, so if you didn’t react fast enough, that’s on you. But with Melinoe, i feel like I’m wrestling my own controller, because the enemies have fast attacks, and I am amble to react fast enough, and yet she doesn’t. Also, I’m pretty sure Zagreus did not need to have a whole upgrade slot just to have his dash be immediate. That Arcana upgrade felt less like an upgrade and more like a solution to a created problem. Why do I need to waste a whole card just to slightly improve the input lag?

At least the iframes have no input lag, only the movement itself does.

Originally posted by Iniquity:

use the arcana upgrade that makes it instant

It does not,

[shlongbongchewy]

Originally posted by asphalt:

you're trying to play this like it's hades 1, dodging a ton while attacking to make progress, but you don't and can't do that with melinoe, her toolkit isn't made for agility, it's made for bursting everything, spam the hell out of the omega cast, it immobilizes everything and does a ton of damage by itself.

(also if you want to cheese chronos, pick wolf howl as your hex, get the invunerability upgrade for it and just spam omega attacks while close to him)

I supposed, perhaps unfairly, that this game would play like Hades 1.

[paincanbefun]

there's an arcana card that makes it instant

[Last_Sinner]

Melinoe and Zagreus are meant to be opposites. After practice, you learn that mobs/bosses allow you to get behind them or to safe spots with Melinoe. There's also plenty of options to have things slowed down with omega moves and the related Arcana, Hermes boons, Seline hexes. If anything, I found Hades 2 easier to adjust to than Hades 1. And getting the right damage builds makes fights short enough to make movement less of a pain.

[slonka]

Originally posted by jbrd_:

Originally posted by slonka:

I have the Arcana upgrade, and it’s still not instant (not in the way Zagreus had it). I played to games back to back just to compare, and Zagreus’s dash feels instant. It was very reaction based, so if you didn’t react fast enough, that’s on you. But with Melinoe, i feel like I’m wrestling my own controller, because the enemies have fast attacks, and I am amble to react fast enough, and yet she doesn’t. Also, I’m pretty sure Zagreus did not need to have a whole upgrade slot just to have his dash be immediate. That Arcana upgrade felt less like an upgrade and more like a solution to a created problem. Why do I need to waste a whole card just to slightly improve the input lag?

The iFrames are instant; I just tested this today. Also, the card costs a measly 1 Grasp — hardly a “waste of a whole card”.

One grasp may not look like a lot, but there is a card in the deck (a really good one) that requires you to have “less than two of the exact same cards in grasp worth.” When conditions like that become relevant, then yes, “one measly grasp” suddenly becomes important. Also I don’t care about iframes, her movement is still sluggish. You cannot argue that she’s as snappy as Zagreus, because that’s just false. You need those precious invincibility frames when fighting bullet hell bosses. I love Hades II to death, don’t get me wrong, but man that is the BIGGEST gripe I have with the game.