Am I crazy or is the writing not great in this game?

[Corrie]

I hate to make another negative topic here because I am enjoying this game quite a lot from a gameplay perspective but I find the story and writing this time around to be really bland and uninteresting.

I find myself skipping most dialogues, especially with the head witch because frankly it's just boring. Maybe it's because I'm comparing to the first game where the adversarial nature of your relationship with your dad and the fact that he was the boss was really fascinating but I just find myself not caring what anyone says in this one. I will say though Nemesis seems like an interesting character and the dynamic between her and Melinoe is fun.

Also any attempt at being cute or charming has just come off as annoying to me. Dora is just not funny.

[Blacksnake]

I'm going to be the ♥♥♥♥ that points out that the writing is good. You may just not like the story they are telling or the characters. That happens. There is a reason why some people thought Batman vs Superman was a good movie, or why some people did not like the Fallout show. Tastes are different.

[Blacksnake]

Originally posted by amp:

Originally posted by hewittlemming:

I don't get where people getting this Chosen One vibes, Mel is more like a child soldier. Even Hecate herself said as much.

since she was apparently chosen to kill Chronos, by Hecate (but possibly by fates to)- as its stated multiple times by several characters including Hecate herself; child soldier can be a chosen one to

Everybody is a Chosen One because the Fates decide. Zagreus was also a Chosen One to reunite his family. Hades was a Chose One to hold authority in the afterlife. The only entity in the whole series that is not a Chosen One is Chaos.

[amp]

Originally posted by hewittlemming:

Originally posted by amp:

since she was apparently chosen to kill Chronos, by Hecate (but possibly by fates to)- as its stated multiple times by several characters including Hecate herself; child soldier can be a chosen one to

She was given the task by Hecate to kill Chronos because he's turtling in the House of Hades and only she, as a Princess of the Underworld, can open the express route to the House. Hell, Hecate doesn't even really tried to stop Nemesis attempting the same but that girl always get lost in the Fields of Mourning and can never reach Cerberus.

so it must be her - its her fate so she is a chosen one :D in most stories the chosen one is the one because they have certain ability and/or parentage

[Travis Touchdown]

I love Odysseus in mythology, but it saddens me that I generally agree he's kind of boring. Most of his time was spent telling me about stuff I had already seen.

Odysseus: "Our reports say there's a thing out there."
Melinoe: "Yeah, I know. I ran into it and beat it."

This was the gist of a lot of the dialogue I had with him. When he finally opened up to talk about why he's not near his wife and kid, despite that being the driving force of his, well, odyssey, they swerved for kind of a joke about how what he's actually brooding about is that he really wants to hear Scylla's music. Which is an okay gag, but I just wanted Odysseus to be cooler or lean into being bragadocious more.

My favorite interaction was walking in to see him regaling a thoroughly unamused Nemesis with his various stories. I liked that. I wanted more of that. Maybe I need to use his keepsake more to unlock more fun interactions. I haven't used it against the boss most closely tied with Odysseus yet and that seems like a mistake.

Edit: I should clarify that I don't find the writing bad like everyone else. It's still full of charm and character, it's just that the mood is very depressed and dour most of the time. With the focus on killing a dude (over and over) to save your family, it doesn't feel like there's any fun to be had. There are more varied diversions with the fishing, the hot springs, and the tavern, and the characters constantly call out "Oh it's okay for us to take a break and just relax because rest and reflection and downtime help us be better prepared for when it matters," but it feels a tad forced. Like having a fishing trip with Moros would be a fun diversion if the characters didn't have to call attention to the fact that they probably shouldn't be fishing when there's a war currently raging that only we can stop.

I really hope that there's a bunch of stuff in the "post-game" where the characters can actually breathe.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by Blacksnake:

Originally posted by amp:

since she was apparently chosen to kill Chronos, by Hecate (but possibly by fates to)- as its stated multiple times by several characters including Hecate herself; child soldier can be a chosen one to

Everybody is a Chosen One because the Fates decide. Zagreus was also a Chosen One to reunite his family. Hades was a Chose One to hold authority in the afterlife. The only entity in the whole series that is not a Chosen One is Chaos.

Yeah uh, the fates are not doing so well in this game. That plot point isn't finished though so we'll see.

[amp]

Originally posted by Blacksnake:

Originally posted by amp:

since she was apparently chosen to kill Chronos, by Hecate (but possibly by fates to)- as its stated multiple times by several characters including Hecate herself; child soldier can be a chosen one to

Everybody is a Chosen One because the Fates decide. Zagreus was also a Chosen One to reunite his family. Hades was a Chose One to hold authority in the afterlife. The only entity in the whole series that is not a Chosen One is Chaos.

damn the three fates - they are the real enemies - striping people of their free will and predeterminating their life :)

[Ting]

None of this probably matters if there wasn't Hades 1 to contrast with.

One thing I keep coming back to is that in Hades 1, Zagreus starts off spoiled, angry, and to be fair he has good reason: he is constantly belittled by his father, taken unseriously by others around him. Being at your home is actually a hostile environment, and leaving it, ironically, feels "safer" in some ways. Those of us who continued playing until the true ending know just how much things changed over time.

In Hades 2, everyone more or less pats you on the back? There's very little in the way of anyone who teases character development out of Melinoe. Nemesis, maybe. Eris. But both of them are far too obviously playful. Hecate replaces the brooding father who chastises you with more or less a loving mother figure. It *seems* like it rhymes, like it's a good contrast, but you almost immediately see why the drastic contrast in Hades 1 is so helpful, and why Hades 2 in its early moments feels rote in comparison.

With the exception of Echo -- who is barely even a character given her motif -- I have found it difficult to get into any side story, and almost none of them give way to character development for Melinoe. Who is she? Why does she care so much about all of this? "Brooding" over family is given all of a 5 second zooming into a still frame, and that's all we have to contextualize things until you run into Hades, and conversations there are necessarily stilted.

Chronos, I hate to say because I love his overall design and acting (again, voice actors just killing it here) is reduced to a moustache twirling villain in EA. That can change. Should change. A twist may be the only thing that can change this: Chronos is saving us all from ourselves. Melinoe and Hecate are actually evil. Something. Anything.

Zagreus needs to be a part of this game and sooner rather than later. Not to play, but to like bounce development off of. Melinoe needs someone she can actually talk to in ways that don't feel completely superficial.

[amp]

Originally posted by Ting:

None of this probably matters if there wasn't Hades 1 to contrast with.

One thing I keep coming back to is that in Hades 1, Zagreus starts off spoiled, angry, and to be fair he has good reason: he is constantly belittled by his father, taken unseriously by others around him. Being at your home is actually a hostile environment, and leaving it, ironically, feels "safer" in some ways. Those of us who continued playing until the true ending know just how much things changed over time.

In Hades 2, everyone more or less pats you on the back? There's very little in the way of anyone who teases character development out of Melinoe. Nemesis, maybe. Eris. But both of them are far too obviously playful. Hecate replaces the brooding father who chastises you with more or less a loving mother figure. It *seems* like it rhymes, like it's a good contrast, but you almost immediately see why the drastic contrast in Hades 1 is so helpful, and why Hades 2 in its early moments feels rote in comparison.

With the exception of Echo -- who is barely even a character given her motif -- I have found it difficult to get into any side story, and almost none of them give way to character development for Melinoe. Who is she? Why does she care so much about all of this? "Brooding" over family is given all of a 5 second zooming into a still frame, and that's all we have to contextualize things until you run into Hades, and conversations there are necessarily stilted.

Chronos, I hate to say because I love his overall design and acting (again, voice actors just killing it here) is reduced to a moustache twirling villain in EA. That can change. Should change. A twist may be the only thing that can change this: Chronos is saving us all from ourselves. Melinoe and Hecate are actually evil. Something. Anything.

Zagreus needs to be a part of this game and sooner rather than later. Not to play, but to like bounce development off of. Melinoe needs someone she can actually talk to in ways that don't feel completely superficial.

^This

[Fingusa of the East]

Originally posted by Ting:

None of this probably matters if there wasn't Hades 1 to contrast with.

One thing I keep coming back to is that in Hades 1, Zagreus starts off spoiled, angry, and to be fair he has good reason: he is constantly belittled by his father, taken unseriously by others around him. Being at your home is actually a hostile environment, and leaving it, ironically, feels "safer" in some ways. Those of us who continued playing until the true ending know just how much things changed over time.

In Hades 2, everyone more or less pats you on the back? There's very little in the way of anyone who teases character development out of Melinoe. Nemesis, maybe. Eris. But both of them are far too obviously playful. Hecate replaces the brooding father who chastises you with more or less a loving mother figure. It *seems* like it rhymes, like it's a good contrast, but you almost immediately see why the drastic contrast in Hades 1 is so helpful, and why Hades 2 in its early moments feels rote in comparison.

With the exception of Echo -- who is barely even a character given her motif -- I have found it difficult to get into any side story, and almost none of them give way to character development for Melinoe. Who is she? Why does she care so much about all of this? "Brooding" over family is given all of a 5 second zooming into a still frame, and that's all we have to contextualize things until you run into Hades, and conversations there are necessarily stilted.

Chronos, I hate to say because I love his overall design and acting (again, voice actors just killing it here) is reduced to a moustache twirling villain in EA. That can change. Should change. A twist may be the only thing that can change this: Chronos is saving us all from ourselves. Melinoe and Hecate are actually evil. Something. Anything.

Zagreus needs to be a part of this game and sooner rather than later. Not to play, but to like bounce development off of. Melinoe needs someone she can actually talk to in ways that don't feel completely superficial.

Yeah this essentially sums up how I feel about the story in this game in general.

I highly doubt they would pull anything too interesting with Chronos there, for many reasons many of which you cannot exactly mention these days. Would be pretty cool though.

Would almost be a Yoko Taro style plot twist.

[amp]

Originally posted by Fingusa of the East:

Yeah this essentially sums up how I feel about the story in this game in general.

I highly doubt they would pull anything too interesting with Chronos there, for many reasons many of which you cannot exactly mention these days. Would be pretty cool though.

Would almost be a Yoko Taro style plot twist.

Holding my thumbs for a twist but not expecting much. I was hoping for a dark twist while playing hades 1 - the grass not being greener on the other side of fence kind of thing - persephone actually despising underworld, hades and her son and not wanting to have anything to do with them; and zagreus learning to treasure what he already has and try to repair his relationship with his father rather than escape to nonpresent mother. Instead we got all syrupy sweet ending.

[goodbye_bonito]

I found writing to be a bit less comical and more serious this time, doesn't mean it is worse. So far each character have been interesting and Mel being a more mature person than Zag was is a plus too.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

I prefer the dialogue in Hades 1, but I think the dialogue (and narration) in Hades 2 is actually superior. The writing's excellent. Diction and delivery are a grade above.

A brief skim of ppl who disagree reveals that most naysayers just don't like what's being talked about. They don't like that story.

That's got absolutely nothing to do with whether the writing is "great" or not.

[Ting]

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

I prefer the dialogue in Hades 1, but I think the dialogue (and narration) in Hades 2 is actually superior. The writing's excellent. Diction and delivery are a grade above.

A brief skim of ppl who disagree reveals that most naysayers just don't like what's being talked about. They don't like that story.

That's got absolutely nothing to do with whether the writing is "great" or not.

I understand what you're saying, but it's splitting hairs and doesn't get to the core of the problem which is that good writing that ultimately goes nowhere is what writers know as "fluff." It has no density, worth, meaning or value. It *reads* well, but that does no good if you don't want to actually read it. Something can sound beautiful, grand even, but have no foundational coherency to it. Hades 2 reads like an AI that has learned to imitate the tone and delivery of quippy dialogue in the first game.

Don't get me wrong: it sounds wonderful. The voice actor reads are phenomenal. If it was all in the service of the characters, we'd be hitting the home run twice. But so far, you gotta admit, it's gone nowhere with a quickness.

But, if you want to be pedantic about it, I'll concede that "good storytelling" != "writing words that flow well" In fact, plenty of games have amazing stories and terrible story*telling*. But you can see how "The writing is fine, it's just the story is bad" ultimately produces a far worse outcome than if the writing was bad and the story is great.

[Byeah05]

half the game and nearly all of the story is unobtainable for now. Best answer to this question is "wait"

[Loiya]

Take one, long look at Chronos and tell me we have even a twentieth of the game's story available to us. No, really, look at him. Analyze his design. See what's there.