Simply bad game design

[Aedwynn]

I've got 170+ hours in Hades 1, can't say i'm a pro rather your average player.
Honestly, I don't like Hades 2 - for many reasons.
1) Weapons are weak. It's obvious - the time you spend on late game enemies is insane. Challenges like Nemesis is a good measure - you can compete pretty well in act 1, but in any later act you can see a clear difference - you take dozens of hits to take down one opponent while your adversary oneshot kills anyone. Before you jump to thread with "tips" like "you need a proper build for a weapon/porper gifts" - I know that. The issue is how often you can achieve this. In 30+ hours game time I saw like 2 runs with a decent build that allowed me to get past act3 boss. (But no Kronos kill). In 99% other cases it's a broken build that you have 0 options to fix. Bad gift choices, bad hammer choices. 50% of time you get no choices to amp your weapon damage. Like at all. You are stuck collecting basic resources that give no progress. Now add a possible game+ challenges (like Hell modifiers in H1) and even those 1% builds look weak if they barely manage the basic game.
2) Resources management is just bad. In 30 hours of gameplay, the first time I got obsidian or flotsam wood is like an hour ago. Despite me regularly visiting locations they drop in. That's how bad it is. Why would I ever pick a tablet or fishing rod if they do not provide any meaningful resource? Why do I need to choose a tool in first place, If for all I know, I may never, ever meet a resource I need in any given run despite me having proper tool equipped?
3) What's the point of familiars? They are mostly useless and the best use for them is as alternative resource gathering tool which is, unfortunately, the lame tablet/ fishing rod?
4) Why so much AOE /armor on enemies? Why character is so unresponsive and is often stuck in animations?
5) Moon spells are plain bad - they are either have no meaningful benefit (even upgraded) or require too much effort to be usable, which barely compensates alternative gifts you can possibly get
6) Enemy spawning is broken, a few times I ran in a situation where last enemies just won't spawn and you are either softlocked or forced to skip rewards.
7) Gifts are mostly bad, don't interact with each other, or give player very situational benefits. Like Hestia's run that "reflects" projectiles? It doesn't work on most bosses which makes it a meme build for Eris and disadvantage in every other battle.
Hera's chains? they are good vs crowd if you can put them on said crowd. Which requires AoE. Wich is already good vs crowd. The point? List goes on...

[Aedryn]

This is the biggest "skill issue" post I've seen in a minute.

30+ hours and you've made it to Tartarus twice? That's on you, bud.

[Aedwynn]

Originally posted by FreakEr:

I'm sorry OP but you are demonstrably incorrect on almost every point that you made. I'm not trying to be snarky or rude here but if you watch any of the major Hades streamers/Youtubers do any random builds, even on higher Fear levels (the Heat equivalent from H1) you will quickly see how wrong you are.

Why would I look at said streamers if they obviously have a ♥♥♥♥ ton of unlocks under rug so ofc any build is probably ok for them. If I spend as much hours or unlock as many stuff I'll also easily beat any boss in any setup. But that's not what I am talking about.
Instead, show me a streamer just starting game with no arcanas, no keepsakes, beating game straight from start to finish in one run. Then I might take your point a bit more seriously.

You may not like a lot of things about the game and that's totally valid but you're posing really flawed and incorrect statements as fact and it's clear that the main reason you feel this way is because you don't understand a lot about how the game works. And that's OK! Part of the fun of these games is learning what works and what doesn't, and more importantly what works for YOU and your playstyle.

Then point out what's wrong. You simply saying I'm wrong without providing anything isn't helpful. At all.

All of this is besides the fact that the game is nearly a year out from 1.0 and still has a long way to go with additional content, mechanics, balance, polish etc. It's an exceptional Early Access title as is and I'm having an absolute blast streaking wins and pushing my weapon aspect levels and Fear levels.

I don't have aspects. I don't have a lot of resources either as game doesn't spawn them.
Till recent I didn't even had improved arcanas. Comparing your game as you playing it right now to my game is plain wrong. Game is far easier for you.

But it's different than Hades 1 and requires you to think differently when building your character. In its current state it's very easy to end up with a bad build by biome #3 due to poor boon/hammer selection and not realize it because you were following instincts instilled into you by Hades 1.

What exactly is instilled by Hades 1? Why are you people keep bringing stuff that doesn't apply as if it's absolute truth? I'm pretty sure it's the game issue, when one run I can't beat a 2nd boss, and next one - same char, same unlocks, same weapon even - I go straight to Kronos phase two. That's how it happened. I wasn't able to beat boss 2 at all, the next run I killed it, next boss, and brought last boss to 50% in phase 2. To me, it simply means boons aren't balanced at all.

If the things you are saying were true people wouldn't have been getting clears on day 1 of EA launching and streaking wins since, even without a ton of unlocks and death defiances. It's just a matter of learning the game and adapting to the new mechanics.

That's lame logic. A nolifer playing 24hours would definitely get better results. Streamer that was invited to promote game (and most likely was able to play and train before launch) will get amazing results too. I'm neither of those, so I don't care what a minority can achieve. I better look at majority that rightfully complains about game balance.
You can argue that game gets better later, but my problem is mostly with how long I need to wait for that - because progress seems to be very random. Some people get there in a few hours, some people (like me) are stuck for dozens with no progress.

[VAL]

Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:

I'm 33 hours in and have cleared fear 16 on both paths. You're doing something wrong.

As soon i saw the hours OP put in and his complaints i immediately clocked that he’s doing something wrong. Early game Hades 2 is no different from early game Hades 1. If you’re not upgrading base camp and adapting to the controls, you will have a bad time and resort to nonsensical statements blaming the game instead of yourself.

[rick432656]

Idk kind of feel this kind not. It is a bit of skill/feel issue but I had a similar experience of what just felt like bashing my head against a wall because of questionable UI on the grasp (I had to learn to upgrade it from a post here), not knowing I need to get moss and upgrades like bronze from the surface apparently forget me not allows to see where to gather resources so I never visited the surface which was dumb. I also just didn’t really know good builds so I was kind of confused on how to deal good dps and didn’t really want to use omegas or specials. I still don’t use casts but I at least feel comfortable using omega attack for axe now. I think the difference between good setups and bad ones is way to high and weapons can feel very reliant on an early hammer to really take you build from average to borderline op. I also got the amazing advice from the forum to attack behind act 3 boss. While I still think his shockwaves are dumb I can at least beat him consistently now. Overall understandable to extent keep trying and it will get better look on this forum for advice. hopefully some balance things will be fixed and which will help give a better experience for people who don’t have optimal builds

[Fire walk with me]

Originally posted by VAL:

Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:

I'm 33 hours in and have cleared fear 16 on both paths. You're doing something wrong.

As soon i saw the hours OP put in and his complaints i immediately clocked that he’s doing something wrong. Early game Hades 2 is no different from early game Hades 1. If you’re not upgrading base camp and adapting to the controls, you will have a bad time and resort to nonsensical statements blaming the game instead of yourself.

This for real. If you pizza when you're supposed to French fry... you're gonna have a bad time.

[Rum Tum Tugger]

Yeah I noticed Hestia's projectile scorch not working on bosses, that feels like a bug they should fix. Also agree that the Moon boons are just not worth it at this time except for 1 or 2. Hitch seems good in theory but you're right, if you're doing AOE anyway in a crowd then there's not much benefit to it.

That said, there's a reason it's still early access as they're figuring out how to balance things, and they're relying on our feedback.

[rick432656]

A big part of why progress can feel so random is that you can only unlock stuff after you get prophecies completed which unlocks for more prophecies etc. if you don’t unlock something to don’t pay attention to fates list or just don’t care for gathering resources you kind of screw up the gameplay. This happened to me 2 times. Didn’t know how to upgrade grasp because of UI not looking at tutorial and I didn’t realized you needed to go to surface to get moss. This lead to me not being able to get new things to brew which mean just has a ton of runs not really doing anything useful resource wise. This needs to be a bit clearer for new players of need to make unlock requirements a bit less forced or less step by step especially since you have a choice to go to surface but it wasn’t clear to me you really needed to go to get critical upgrades. Similar to still don’t have the familiar like obviously I am doing something wrong but other people who don’t pick up on things quickly might fall into similar traps.

[ZeroAffex]

Originally posted by Fire walk with me:

Originally posted by VAL:

As soon i saw the hours OP put in and his complaints i immediately clocked that he’s doing something wrong. Early game Hades 2 is no different from early game Hades 1. If you’re not upgrading base camp and adapting to the controls, you will have a bad time and resort to nonsensical statements blaming the game instead of yourself.

This for real. If you pizza when you're supposed to French fry... you're gonna have a bad time.

Gibberish.

[Lightgazer]

i mean my first run, the very first run had me with demeter's icy rain for casts and other things i can't remember, i still somehow managed to get to the sirens. died real fast there but i got there.
a lot of it is learnign the patterns and avoiding. and then learnign the weapons, some things work real well for em, some do not.

[GunBladeCorps]

Originally posted by Aedwynn:

Originally posted by GunBladeCorps:

I feel this. Most people complaining are just those who haven't adapted to the new mechanics and can't Zues shield their way through a run. As if the introduction of a new challenge is just bad.

Never did Zeus shield in H1. What's your next excuse?

Your'e just plain out garbage at the game then? I feel like anyone with a moderate skill level should be able to successfully win one run in 30 hours worth of playing.

[Aedwynn]

Originally posted by VAL:

Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:

I'm 33 hours in and have cleared fear 16 on both paths. You're doing something wrong.

As soon i saw the hours OP put in and his complaints i immediately clocked that he’s doing something wrong. Early game Hades 2 is no different from early game Hades 1. If you’re not upgrading base camp and adapting to the controls, you will have a bad time and resort to nonsensical statements blaming the game instead of yourself.

What exactly I'm doing wrrong? I know how it's important to upgrade camp. But I was unable to. As I said, I've been to act 3 numerous times and just once! I got obsidian from it. All other runs - no Obsidian. Same for other resources.
The other thing you guys fail to understand is that random plays a BIG role in how you progress.
Let's say, you score, and your very first build is viable one, means you (experienced in H1) get to act3-act4 on first try. Means tons of resources, tons of unlocks. Means your second run is already boosted by arcanas, cauldron upgrades, etc.
Now imagine, you are unlucky like me. You don't get good builds. at all. You are earning resources at snail's pace. Why? Because, liker I pointed eralier, In H1 you can get far even with basic stuff /random combos. You will suffer at last boss, but generally you can do a lot with basic stuff. It is very not so in H2 - you need proper arcanas, you need proper boons, you need proper hammers. But all that stuff is locked far, far away.
I first met Haefastos like 20 hours in. I first met Hera like 25 hours in. The pace is accelerating right now due to arcanas and other unlocks, but seeing how all breakthroughs were just random lucky builds I question game balance.
What I hear in response?
Advices on the level of "it's easy to kill Kronos if you already killed him" stuff.

[werwolfgaming]

Originally posted by Aedwynn:

Originally posted by VAL:

As soon i saw the hours OP put in and his complaints i immediately clocked that he’s doing something wrong. Early game Hades 2 is no different from early game Hades 1. If you’re not upgrading base camp and adapting to the controls, you will have a bad time and resort to nonsensical statements blaming the game instead of yourself.

What exactly I'm doing wrrong? I know how it's important to upgrade camp. But I was unable to. As I said, I've been to act 3 numerous times and just once! I got obsidian from it. All other runs - no Obsidian. Same for other resources.
The other thing you guys fail to understand is that random plays a BIG role in how you progress.
Let's say, you score, and your very first build is viable one, means you (experienced in H1) get to act3-act4 on first try. Means tons of resources, tons of unlocks. Means your second run is already boosted by arcanas, cauldron upgrades, etc.
Now imagine, you are unlucky like me. You don't get good builds. at all. You are earning resources at snail's pace. Why? Because, liker I pointed eralier, In H1 you can get far even with basic stuff /random combos. You will suffer at last boss, but generally you can do a lot with basic stuff. It is very not so in H2 - you need proper arcanas, you need proper boons, you need proper hammers. But all that stuff is locked far, far away.
I first met Haefastos like 20 hours in. I first met Hera like 25 hours in. The pace is accelerating right now due to arcanas and other unlocks, but seeing how all breakthroughs were just random lucky builds I question game balance.
What I hear in response?
Advices on the level of "it's easy to kill Kronos if you already killed him" stuff.

Most early unlocks require resources u find on floor 1 and 2 not 3 focus on arcana cards and do some upgrades in couldron as they come third act is very big find the tree that u can activate it will light up all available stuff u will also get an incantation that tells u if a object is around once u clear the room,

In act 3 try and sprint around the map to see if u find resources more

[Aedwynn]

Originally posted by GunBladeCorps:

Originally posted by Aedwynn:

Never did Zeus shield in H1. What's your next excuse?

Your'e just plain out garbage at the game then? I feel like anyone with a moderate skill level should be able to successfully win one run in 30 hours worth of playing.

I guess you don't know the term "Survivorship bias". Pathetic.

[Aedwynn]

Originally posted by werwolfgaming:

Most early unlocks require resources u find on floor 1 and 2 not 3 focus on arcana cards and do some upgrades in couldron as they come third act is very big find the tree that u can activate it will light up all available stuff u will also get an incantation that tells u if a object is around once u clear the room,

In act 3 try and sprint around the map to see if u find resources more

I did all that. I unlocked upgrade that reminds you about uncollected resources among the first. I tell you. On numerous occasions I saw game not spawning specific resources for entire act. Not just act 3. I saw same in act 2, act 4. Even once in act 1.

[Hexion]

30 hours but not yet defeat Chronos? im not some pro player i dont even play Hades 1 much but beat him with sister blade special return build under 10 hours.
I hated most ppl that typed : "skill issue" but its definitely it.