Fear system vs heat seems like a miss

[DeuceBane]

what was wrong with the heat system?

Whats the point of making hecate the Bounty boss for any given fear run, you do the run you kill hecate you get youre stuff, now youre on a run with a bunch of extra challenge for no reason? am i missing something?

there needs to a be a reason to beat the run doesnt there? I like the idea of challenge runs that only make you go for an earlier boss, cool idea, but making that the heat system doesnt feel good. seems a weird change to make, again I dont get what was wrong with heat as an end game system, i feel like this is made different jsut to be different

[Hagrid]

Sounds like someone hasn't progressed enough to unlock the Statue rewards from playing with high fear. Much like in the first game, playing with the heat/fear is around for some unlocks, yes, but once you get past those it's just for the challenge. Did you stop using heat once you had maxed out all the weapons in the first game?

[Lazsecastor]

Originally posted by Hagrid:

Sounds like someone hasn't progressed enough to unlock the Statue rewards from playing with high fear. Much like in the first game, playing with the heat/fear is around for some unlocks, yes, but once you get past those it's just for the challenge. Did you stop using heat once you had maxed out all the weapons in the first game?

On the contrary, heat was a big part of progression because it was the fastest way to get titan blood and therefore to get upgraded weapon aspects. Sure, you could do that all on heat 0 but it would be at a trickle pace. In comparison, the resource granted by fear is used by only a few things, so you don't need to do as many increasing fear runs to progress

[Hagrid]

Originally posted by Lazsecastor:

Originally posted by Hagrid:

Sounds like someone hasn't progressed enough to unlock the Statue rewards from playing with high fear. Much like in the first game, playing with the heat/fear is around for some unlocks, yes, but once you get past those it's just for the challenge. Did you stop using heat once you had maxed out all the weapons in the first game?

On the contrary, heat was a big part of progression because it was the fastest way to get titan blood and therefore to get upgraded weapon aspects. Sure, you could do that all on heat 0 but it would be at a trickle pace.

Hence my second and third sentences. Thanks for agreeing with me.

[Lazsecastor]

Originally posted by Hagrid:

Originally posted by Lazsecastor:

On the contrary, heat was a big part of progression because it was the fastest way to get titan blood and therefore to get upgraded weapon aspects. Sure, you could do that all on heat 0 but it would be at a trickle pace.

Hence my second and third sentences. Thanks for agreeing with me.

My bad, I misread what you said and adjusted my argument to better express my point.

[DeuceBane]

Originally posted by Hagrid:

Sounds like someone hasn't progressed enough to unlock the Statue rewards from playing with high fear. Much like in the first game, playing with the heat/fear is around for some unlocks, yes, but once you get past those it's just for the challenge. Did you stop using heat once you had maxed out all the weapons in the first game?

I mean obviously im talking about the resources/meta progression aspect. Im aware you can take additional fear for challenge, yes. im saying i dont like how it works as a meta progression system. if youre adding fear to progress and unlock your weapons, once you get your early boss bounty it feels pointless

[WolfLink0370]

Originally posted by DeuceBane:

Originally posted by Hagrid:

Sounds like someone hasn't progressed enough to unlock the Statue rewards from playing with high fear. Much like in the first game, playing with the heat/fear is around for some unlocks, yes, but once you get past those it's just for the challenge. Did you stop using heat once you had maxed out all the weapons in the first game?

I mean obviously im talking about the resources/meta progression aspect. Im aware you can take additional fear for challenge, yes. im saying i dont like how it works as a meta progression system. if youre adding fear to progress and unlock your weapons, once you get your early boss bounty it feels pointless

After playing the system myself, I can actually appreciate the newer system doesn't keep you too long for it's rewards.

Kind of one of the minor negatives of the old heat system was that you were given incentive to stay on a heat level until you cleaned out all of the possible rewards, as raising heat further did nothing. This made some runs painful and inconsistent, as if you were like me... you'd be switching weapons often to get the Dark Thirst buff (or whatever it's equivalent was called in Hades 1... kind of hazy on the name right now)

Here meanwhile, you're sort of trying to do the opposite: you're instead trying to make the entire run more challenging in general, and if you can get your mark on the way... that's not only just a bonus but it allows you to then take the challenge up even faster as you aren't mandated to stay there anymore.

The short of it is this: Both systems have their pros and cons. In Hades 2 case, the pros is that you can opt to take harder challenges for rewards a lot quicker overall, as they do not require full runs per heat/fear level like Hades 1 did. The fact you don't need to finish the full run can be seen as a drawback, but looking at it the opposite way it feels more appropriate - you're instead making things harder for the fun of it, with the chance to get a bonus on the way for decent early game play (where you're often at you're weakest anyway).

[DeuceBane]

Originally posted by WolfLink0370:

Originally posted by DeuceBane:

I mean obviously im talking about the resources/meta progression aspect. Im aware you can take additional fear for challenge, yes. im saying i dont like how it works as a meta progression system. if youre adding fear to progress and unlock your weapons, once you get your early boss bounty it feels pointless

After playing the system myself, I can actually appreciate the newer system doesn't keep you too long for it's rewards.

Kind of one of the minor negatives of the old heat system was that you were given incentive to stay on a heat level until you cleaned out all of the possible rewards, as raising heat further did nothing. This made some runs painful and inconsistent, as if you were like me... you'd be switching weapons often to get the Dark Thirst buff (or whatever it's equivalent was called in Hades 1... kind of hazy on the name right now)

Here meanwhile, you're sort of trying to do the opposite: you're instead trying to make the entire run more challenging in general, and if you can get your mark on the way... that's not only just a bonus but it allows you to then take the challenge up even faster as you aren't mandated to stay there anymore.

The short of it is this: Both systems have their pros and cons. In Hades 2 case, the pros is that you can opt to take harder challenges for rewards a lot quicker overall, as they do not require full runs per heat/fear level like Hades 1 did. The fact you don't need to finish the full run can be seen as a drawback, but looking at it the opposite way it feels more appropriate - you're instead making things harder for the fun of it, with the chance to get a bonus on the way for decent early game play (where you're often at you're weakest anyway).

I think it makes very little sense that some weapons 1st fear is the 3rd boss in the surface while others is hecate. IMO challenges like this were best kept in the challenge runs feature (the crystal, cant remember the name) Especially in a game which doesnt even give you the ability to end the run, you have to go stand in fire or something and let all your death defiance expire, it just doesnt feel tight and concise. I can see your points, but yeah I dont care for this system and strongly prefer how heat + titan blood worked for strengthening weapons

[WolfLink0370]

Originally posted by DeuceBane:

Originally posted by WolfLink0370:

After playing the system myself, I can actually appreciate the newer system doesn't keep you too long for it's rewards.

Kind of one of the minor negatives of the old heat system was that you were given incentive to stay on a heat level until you cleaned out all of the possible rewards, as raising heat further did nothing. This made some runs painful and inconsistent, as if you were like me... you'd be switching weapons often to get the Dark Thirst buff (or whatever it's equivalent was called in Hades 1... kind of hazy on the name right now)

Here meanwhile, you're sort of trying to do the opposite: you're instead trying to make the entire run more challenging in general, and if you can get your mark on the way... that's not only just a bonus but it allows you to then take the challenge up even faster as you aren't mandated to stay there anymore.

The short of it is this: Both systems have their pros and cons. In Hades 2 case, the pros is that you can opt to take harder challenges for rewards a lot quicker overall, as they do not require full runs per heat/fear level like Hades 1 did. The fact you don't need to finish the full run can be seen as a drawback, but looking at it the opposite way it feels more appropriate - you're instead making things harder for the fun of it, with the chance to get a bonus on the way for decent early game play (where you're often at you're weakest anyway).

I think it makes very little sense that some weapons 1st fear is the 3rd boss in the surface while others is hecate. IMO challenges like this were best kept in the challenge runs feature (the crystal, cant remember the name) Especially in a game which doesnt even give you the ability to end the run, you have to go stand in fire or something and let all your death defiance expire, it just doesnt feel tight and concise. I can see your points, but yeah I dont care for this system and strongly prefer how heat + titan blood worked for strengthening weapons

Well I mean I at least can appreciate that Melinoe's aspects do not require any of the Titans Blood equivalent in this game, just mainly silver and regional resources. This at least gives you a strong base aspect you can use while you work to improve the others

But another thing to keep in mind is that the game is still unfinished... particularly the upper route; perhaps they will expand on this system further later.

[ninemiletree]

The system is fine, I don't mind the way the bounties work.

I actually just dislike the UI, but its pretty clear that is a "WIP" as the elements in the earlier game are much more finished than elements in the later game.

I find the UI very confusing and monochromatic, but I have very little doubt they'll be improving that as time goes on.

[CacaFresca]

Everyone is forgetting that right now, there is one resource for an incantation which is completely unattainable, and it has to do with stopping Chronos from being able to return after being defeated

I would bet dollars to doughnuts it can be obtained only once we can see the actual end of a run in the underworld and surface, and will require pushing through each individual fear level to earn 1x of it, just like the original with Diamonds, for example.

[roronoapedro]

Hey are you guys actually getting Nightmare? I keep doing runs with like +3 fear and beating it, but I have yet to get any of it. Is it just broken for me? Is it supposed to drop at the bounty boss or at the end of the run?

[Super Buu]

I agree actually. The argument about heat keeping you too long is valid, but the rewards beside heat drove me to complete the run, where as this does not. I felt accomplishment finishing a run, I don't really from just going through Erebus. This is fine with the stone because it sends you back, but here I want to finish the run, but am not incentivized to do so. Well there's the incentives, but this which is the main proponent for replay value, simply doesn't do as well. I can literally just go in, die on purpose, and repeat over and over. Getting titan blood wasn't very hard and it forced you to improve at the game, which are things I appreciated.