Did people not play Hades I?

[TheEquipped]

There have been a not insignificant amount of discussions about Hades II going woke, and people agreeing with that sentiment, when I just don't understand it. Hades has always been woke. Zagreus is an openly bisexual man in an evidently polyamorous relationship. Athena wasn't white, almost all the gods/goddesses bring up a time they engaged in not straight activities. Like, have people just been having stupid juice without inviting me?

[ele]

It wasn't cool to try and be funny talking about it back then.

[Opochtli]

I think a portion of the public's brain kinda rotted a bit since then.

[UNBREAKABLE]

only winning move is not to reply to those threads, just unnecessary anger whether it's just clown bait or people genuine about what they're saying

[ele]

Originally posted by UNBREAKABLE:

only winning move is not to reply to those threads, just unnecessary anger whether it's just clown bait or people genuine about what they're saying

No reply + block thread starter, yes.

[jbrd_]

Steam Jester Awards didn't exist back then. The system encourages low-effort memes, quips, and trolling.

[ele]

Originally posted by jbrd_:

Steam Jester Awards didn't exist back then. The system encourages low-effort memes, quips, and trolling.

The rewards are useless though so I don't see how that changes anything.

[jbrd_]

Originally posted by ele:

Originally posted by jbrd_:

Steam Jester Awards didn't exist back then. The system encourages low-effort memes, quips, and trolling.

The rewards are useless though so I don't see how that changes anything.

Steam Awards → Steam Points → 'loli booba waifu' profile themes

[UNBREAKABLE]

Originally posted by ele:

Originally posted by jbrd_:

Steam Jester Awards didn't exist back then. The system encourages low-effort memes, quips, and trolling.

The rewards are useless though so I don't see how that changes anything.

By low effort engagement baiting on games you don't even own - you can get steam store items for free instead of paying valve money to get points.

So when your average steam forum poster awards a jester to a bait topic - they're not hurting the poster's feelings, they're just giving them free points.

[Ting]

Is there any room at all to acknowledge that Hades 2 appears to pander much more than Hades 1 without reducing it to a conversation about 'woke/anti-woke', or whether that's inherently good or bad for the game? I acknowledge that it is this way without casting any particular judgement.

But pretending it's not there? I've seen plenty of that, and it's real strange.

[jbrd_]

Originally posted by Ting:

Is there any room at all to acknowledge that Hades 2 appears to pander much more than Hades 1 without reducing it to a conversation about 'woke/anti-woke', or whether that's inherently good or bad for the game? I acknowledge that it is this way without casting any particular judgement.

But pretending it's not there? I've seen plenty of that, and it's real strange.

"Pander" implies that Supergiant is consciously catering to a negative or taboo attribute of their audience. There's nothing negative or taboo about gender, skin color, or sexuality — nothing negative about representation through a diverse cast of characters.

I sort of understand the 'cultural appropriation' complaints yet lean toward indifference because these deities and legends aren't actual people. Let a god have vitiligo if it means children with the condition can play this game, see the representation, and feel a little more included and confident in life. It's a net positive to me.

[Ting]

Originally posted by jbrd_:

Originally posted by Ting:

Is there any room at all to acknowledge that Hades 2 appears to pander much more than Hades 1 without reducing it to a conversation about 'woke/anti-woke', or whether that's inherently good or bad for the game? I acknowledge that it is this way without casting any particular judgement.

But pretending it's not there? I've seen plenty of that, and it's real strange.

"Pander" implies that Supergiant is consciously catering to a negative or taboo attribute of their audience. There's nothing negative or taboo about gender, skin color, or sexuality — nothing negative about representation through a diverse cast of characters.

I sort of understand the 'cultural appropriation' complaints yet lean toward indifference because these deities and legends aren't actual people. Let a god have vitiligo if it means children with the condition can play this game, see the representation, and feel a little more included and confident in life. It's a net positive to me.

I guess I am just asking for a bit more clarity and honesty in the discourse without having to go into the cesspool of intellectual dishonesty that labeling something "woke" naturally includes. While a lot of people may not feel like the inclusion of Hades 2 is at all cause for concern -- I don't particularly feel like it is -- you can still acknowledge that these decisions were *made* consciously and purposefully for the sake of inclusion. And yes, people might call that "woke", but lets be clear: Hades 1 did this. Supergiant has done this forever. They are just doing it in Hades 2 *more*. It is *more* obvious. And if you don't like the word "pander" in this context, choose instead any that indicate that there is far more diversity in the game. But, that the diversity necessarily draws outside the lines of what is expected, it's not surprising that people see that as maybe going too far, or ending in erasure its it worst case scenario.

Deities may not be actual people, but since when has this argument ever really worked for the people that tend to be the most disagreeable on these issues? Videogames *mostly* present individuals who aren't actual people, yet we're still expected to project to those things onto real people as if they have an *outcome* for real people that's undesirable. People worry about violence in GTA, the ass size of that Stellar Blade girl, whatever -- take your pick. None of those are real people.

I digress. Mostly I am just annoyed that people are so terrified of calling a spade a spade. Is Hades 2 a woke game? Yes. Absolutely. And more so than Hades 1.

Is this a major problem? Not so much. It might bring with it bad choices which are being debated, but it's not *that* big of a deal, and it's sure not outside what is expected from Supergiant.

[Poki]

They were pretty mild on Hades 1, yes there was a lot of american political "representation", like black Athenas/Ares, Patroclus, etc, but overall it was pretty balanced, nothing that really hinted at an agenda.

But in this one they really went ALL IN on the woke agenda, it's not subtle, it's right in your face, literally 80% of the cast is women, from MC, to allies, to enemies.
The very few men are openly queer/disabled/androgynous.

And it seems the white guilt is very blatant, there's almost no white people in the game, all supposed "white" people have weird skin tones like grey or green, while other ethnicies like indian, asian, black are very defined.
It's very weird considering this is based off an european mythology. It should be called American Gods, not Greek Gods.

Me as a brazilian have a lot of respect for mythologies from all around the world, but I guess americans hate themselves so much that they need to replicate their Los Angeles/New York airports in all their games.

[wiggles 9 billion]

the usual crybabies have decided that a game from a franchise they never played is causing the downfall of the west or some ♥♥♥♥, they'll realize no one cares soon and pick another game to complain about being woke and the cycle will continue. These people are the biggest losers on earth, it's safe to just make fun of them and then ignore.