Resource grinding is too much

[Shanteageist]

The grinding for Hades 1 was the perfect level but now with psyche, ash, bones, silver, seeds, limestone, lotus, cat tails, nightshade, pearls etc it makes the game a repetitive grind fest. The first game made the need for resources necessary but easy. However, this game feels like you need to start grinding for hours just to get basic progression with the grasp and ash features. Even more annoying is the limiting of resources with the pick, tablet, and spade so now you have to choose which resource you can grind and even see which resource you're missing out on if you pick the incorrect tool. I enjoy the game but it's extremely frustrating.

[almost_a_jill_sandwich]

Originally posted by ffrotty:

Originally posted by SirShreds:

lets list the grindable consumables, shall we?

psyche
bones
ashes
silver
fate fabirc
silver
limestone
bronze
shadow
glassrock
pearl
tears
plasma
marble
moly
nightshade
nightshade seeds
deathcap
mystery seeds
lotus
cattail
cattail seeds
myrtle
wheat
wheat seeds
moss
garlic
garlic cloves
shaderot
poppy
poppy seeds
thalamus
driftwood
nectar
bath salts
obol points


nothing grindy here lol

oooh i'll play this game

psyche - can buy at vendor, get massive amounts for having the tool, the frog can auto gather, get from just choosing encounters with it

bones - can get from selling things at vendor, get from just choosing encounters with it, get it by choosing the weapon that gives you some each encounter

ashes - buy at vendor, get from encounters

silver - erebus mining, narcissus gives you some, get a lot more with upgraded pick

fate fabirc - aracnne, buy at vendor

* silver - you listed this twice

limestone - oceanus mining
bronze - ephyra mining
shadow - cauldron craft
glassrock -mourning mining
pearl - oceanus boss
tears - fields boss

* you forgot golden apple, wool, sand, cinder from bosses

plasma - chaos mining
marble - tartarus mining
moly - hand gathered erebus (get 2x frequently)
nightshade - grown with seeds
nightshade seeds - digging erebus
deathcap - hand in erebus/anywhere its raining
mystery seeds - rare digging / demeter
lotus - hand oceanus
cattail - grown with seeds
cattail seeds - digging oceanus
myrtle - hand fields
wheat - grown with seeds
wheat seeds - digging field
moss - hand ephyra
garlic - grown from cloves
garlic cloves - digging ephyra
shaderot - hand tartarus
poppy - grown from seeds
poppy seeds - digging tartarus
thalamus - grown from seed

* you forgot origin seeds - chaos digging (makes thalamus)

driftwood - hand thessaly
nectar - trading / rewards on map
bath salts - trading, rare digging
obol points - spending money

* you forgot twin lures - bought from vendor
* you forgot witches delight - cauldron craft

* you didn't mention fish, I've caught 12 different ones, the cat can auto gather

* you forgot darkness, moon dust, star dust, nightmare and rubbish



So yeah, not only is your list incomplete, it's fairly useless as a list of "grinding" because a big chunk of it you just get by playing the game, another chunk from direct conversion/crafting.

I only have a few weapon aspects to max out which does require focused gathering, but up to this point there was only 1 or 2 times where i had to focus gather because I didn't have enough of something.

the point is, is that I have to keep track of 40 some random items for quests and crafting. it's sloppy and adds nothing of value to the game. i don't like the story of this game, so the less NPCs i have to interact with the better (this was also true for hades 1, i just don't care for games with massive amounts of dialogue).

and because I'm limited to one tool, I do have to keep track of the consumables to plan out efficient runs.

and to those saying "it's not that bad, you only need x amount", how are new players supposed to know this? Sure, the recipes are pretty simple compared to some games, but it's very off-putting and intimidating as a new player.

[nyy]

What I don't get is why doesnt the heat mechanic reward you with more resources/loot? If you center your progression system around grinding ingredients the player has to farm, why not make them find more of them while playing the "harder version of the same content"?

[815|Shouldabeen]

I don't really think it's an issue with the grind (for me), but rather there are simply too many systems in place . I feel like there's a lot more hub time in hades 2, and it's one of the things I care for the least (still love the game tho). Let's just compare it to Hades 1.

Systems in place in hades 1:
Dark Mirror
Keepsakes
Unlocking Aspects
Upgrading Aspects
House Contractor

Systems in place in Hades 2:
Cauldron
Cauldron Crafting
Charon Orders
Farming
Familiars
Tarot Cards
Upgrading Tarot Cards
Grasp
Gathering Items
Upgrading Gathering items
Unlocking Aspects
Upgrading Aspects
Nightmare Stone
Keepsakes
**Oath of the Unseen**

** I put the Oath of Unseen on there but not the Pact of Punishment from Hades 1 intentionally. The oath opens up a new material to be used and also requires a mandatory weapon be played in order for it to proc testaments. The Pact, on the other hand, is just hardmode that makes continuous resource farming available. Seems completely different to me. **

With nearly triple the systems in play has Hades 1, there's triple the systems that have to be grinded for. Some of it kind of works itself out as you do runs, but others actually have to have deliberate decisions made in order to collect their materials.

On top of this, EVERYONE has something to say to you every single time you return from a run, no matter how short it is.

I just wanna jump into runs.

[DeuceBane]

/disagree, I am loving the resource stuff. Having the meta progression be a bigger part of the gameplay and strategy, giving us a ton of different things we can try to prioritize and go for. I dont mind that the gameplay takes a while to get to that final state of everything unlocked etc, we are all gonna get there eventually lol. Hades 1 still fun to go back to....youll have plenty of time with everything unlocked. I do get where youre coming from- you just wanna start doing runs in the games final state, totally understandable.

I like that they have extended the time it takes to engage with the meta progression. Its a huge part of why its so fun for me currentlly

[Travelinjack]

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

I thought it would be a problem. But aside from being visually overwhelming when you start the game...

I'm not convinced the grinding in this game is that problematic.

You can mark what you need. You don't need everything at once. You can easily convert things with purple rocks and charon orders.

It's clunky compilation. But I don't think it forces any artificial grinding.

At least not where I'm at.

i've played for 45 hours. I've beaten the lvl 8 nightmare above and below. It's not really that bad. I have no idea what they are all whining about.

"EVERYBODY has something to say to you"
LOL what a joke... there are what? AT MOST 6 people to talk to total (Hecate, Dora, Moros, Odysseus, Nemisis, Skelly) + sometimes Eris?
I'm to a point where I made friends with everyone, so they don't chat as much.
But
Hades 1 had Achilles, Hades, Dusa, Cerberus, Orpheus, Megara, (Thanatos optional), skelly, Hypnos, Nyx and Persephone.

You could potentially run into 11 people to talk to in Hades 1 and people are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about having to talk to 6.

Half of the cool bonuses are from developing relationships.

[Travelinjack]

Originally posted by DeuceBane:

/disagree, I am loving the resource stuff. Having the meta progression be a bigger part of the gameplay and strategy, giving us a ton of different things we can try to prioritize and go for. I dont mind that the gameplay takes a while to get to that final state of everything unlocked etc, we are all gonna get there eventually lol. Hades 1 still fun to go back to....youll have plenty of time with everything unlocked. I do get where youre coming from- you just wanna start doing runs in the games final state, totally understandable.

I like that they have extended the time it takes to engage with the meta progression. Its a huge part of why its so fun for me currentlly

100% agree with you.

[815|Shouldabeen]

Originally posted by Travelinjack:

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

I thought it would be a problem. But aside from being visually overwhelming when you start the game...

I'm not convinced the grinding in this game is that problematic.

You can mark what you need. You don't need everything at once. You can easily convert things with purple rocks and charon orders.

It's clunky compilation. But I don't think it forces any artificial grinding.

At least not where I'm at.

i've played for 45 hours. I've beaten the lvl 8 nightmare above and below. It's not really that bad. I have no idea what they are all whining about.

"EVERYBODY has something to say to you"
LOL what a joke... there are what? AT MOST 6 people to talk to total (Hecate, Dora, Moros, Odysseus, Nemisis, Skelly) + sometimes Eris?
I'm to a point where I made friends with everyone, so they don't chat as much.
But
Hades 1 had Achilles, Hades, Dusa, Cerberus, Orpheus, Megara, (Thanatos optional), skelly, Hypnos, Nyx and Persephone.

You could potentially run into 11 people to talk to in Hades 1 and people are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about having to talk to 6.

Half of the cool bonuses are from developing relationships.

I think you misunderstand what I was saying. It's a compounding effect. Yes, there were more people in hades 1. However, there were also 1/3 off the systems to interact with. All of what I mentioned just extends hub time and people talking to you is just the icing on the cake.

If they removed the ! marker from people that are only offering meaningless drivel, I wouldn't mind so much. I feel like that should be reserved for actual important dialogue.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Originally posted by Travelinjack:

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

I thought it would be a problem. But aside from being visually overwhelming when you start the game...

I'm not convinced the grinding in this game is that problematic.

You can mark what you need. You don't need everything at once. You can easily convert things with purple rocks and charon orders.

It's clunky compilation. But I don't think it forces any artificial grinding.

At least not where I'm at.

i've played for 45 hours. I've beaten the lvl 8 nightmare above and below. It's not really that bad. I have no idea what they are all whining about.

"EVERYBODY has something to say to you"
LOL what a joke... there are what? AT MOST 6 people to talk to total (Hecate, Dora, Moros, Odysseus, Nemisis, Skelly) + sometimes Eris?
I'm to a point where I made friends with everyone, so they don't chat as much.
But
Hades 1 had Achilles, Hades, Dusa, Cerberus, Orpheus, Megara, (Thanatos optional), skelly, Hypnos, Nyx and Persephone.

You could potentially run into 11 people to talk to in Hades 1 and people are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about having to talk to 6.

Half of the cool bonuses are from developing relationships.

Thanks for the confirm. Like I thought the tool thing would be annoying. But so far in practice, it's not really bothering me.

Like maybe it feels just psychological to feel bad. Instead of genuine fatigue.

[ackmondual]

Originally posted by ffrotty:

Originally posted by SirShreds:

lets list the grindable consumables, shall we?

psyche
bones
ashes
silver
fate fabirc
silver
limestone
bronze
shadow
glassrock
pearl
tears
plasma
marble
moly
nightshade
nightshade seeds
deathcap
mystery seeds
lotus
cattail
cattail seeds
myrtle
wheat
wheat seeds
moss
garlic
garlic cloves
shaderot
poppy
poppy seeds
thalamus
driftwood
nectar
bath salts
obol points


nothing grindy here lol

oooh i'll play this game

psyche - can buy at vendor, get massive amounts for having the tool, the frog can auto gather, get from just choosing encounters with it

bones - can get from selling things at vendor, get from just choosing encounters with it, get it by choosing the weapon that gives you some each encounter

ashes - buy at vendor, get from encounters

silver - erebus mining, narcissus gives you some, get a lot more with upgraded pick

fate fabirc - aracnne, buy at vendor

* silver - you listed this twice

limestone - oceanus mining
bronze - ephyra mining
shadow - cauldron craft
glassrock -mourning mining
pearl - oceanus boss
tears - fields boss

* you forgot golden apple, wool, sand, cinder from bosses

plasma - chaos mining
marble - tartarus mining
moly - hand gathered erebus (get 2x frequently)
nightshade - grown with seeds
nightshade seeds - digging erebus
deathcap - hand in erebus/anywhere its raining
mystery seeds - rare digging / demeter
lotus - hand oceanus
cattail - grown with seeds
cattail seeds - digging oceanus
myrtle - hand fields
wheat - grown with seeds
wheat seeds - digging field
moss - hand ephyra
garlic - grown from cloves
garlic cloves - digging ephyra
shaderot - hand tartarus
poppy - grown from seeds
poppy seeds - digging tartarus
thalamus - grown from seed

* you forgot origin seeds - chaos digging (makes thalamus)

driftwood - hand thessaly
nectar - trading / rewards on map
bath salts - trading, rare digging
obol points - spending money

* you forgot twin lures - bought from vendor
* you forgot witches delight - cauldron craft

* you didn't mention fish, I've caught 12 different ones, the cat can auto gather

* you forgot darkness, moon dust, star dust, nightmare and rubbish



So yeah, not only is your list incomplete, it's fairly useless as a list of "grinding" because a big chunk of it you just get by playing the game, another chunk from direct conversion/crafting.

I only have a few weapon aspects to max out which does require focused gathering, but up to this point there was only 1 or 2 times where i had to focus gather because I didn't have enough of something.

While we're at it, except for Mystery Seeds, all of the other seeds just grow into their rescptively named plants.

[Hormesis]

Originally posted by zero:

im just gonna provide a little context on my progress
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3243317477
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3243317465

as you can see, i have most done in under 2 dozen runs (i was basically at this point 10 or so runs ago)

i never really went out of my way to grind a zone and then die or anything, i just went out and collected as i progressed and it was more then enough, and i hardly ever got a "get free resource" perks from gods (aside from gold, which is moot for this)

you're not even 1/4 of the way to completing your base upgrades. as for your weapons, aspects,cards and companions, i'd assume not even 1/10. they all require resources as well

i just completed 4 eris runs and didn't get a single iron and i need 4 more for simple base upgrades.

[zero]

Originally posted by Hormesis:

Originally posted by zero:

im just gonna provide a little context on my progress
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3243317477
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3243317465

as you can see, i have most done in under 2 dozen runs (i was basically at this point 10 or so runs ago)

i never really went out of my way to grind a zone and then die or anything, i just went out and collected as i progressed and it was more then enough, and i hardly ever got a "get free resource" perks from gods (aside from gold, which is moot for this)

you're not even 1/4 of the way to completing your base upgrades. as for your weapons, aspects,cards and companions, i'd assume not even 1/10. they all require resources as well

i just completed 4 eris runs and didn't get a single iron and i need 4 more for simple base upgrades.

its a fourth completed with no effort across a dozen runs, which was my point about being concerned about "too much grinding" in a game like this, in which to get all the content in hades 1 you needed to do what, 60ish runs?

along with, like i said, a solid 2/3rds of the items you collect are passive income items (plants, seeds, bones, etc) and the only one with an intent to really collect is ore-types.

[AlliedKhajiit]

Originally posted by zero:

Originally posted by Hormesis:

you're not even 1/4 of the way to completing your base upgrades. as for your weapons, aspects,cards and companions, i'd assume not even 1/10. they all require resources as well

i just completed 4 eris runs and didn't get a single iron and i need 4 more for simple base upgrades.

its a fourth completed with no effort across a dozen runs, which was my point about being concerned about "too much grinding" in a game like this, in which to get all the content in hades 1 you needed to do what, 60ish runs?

along with, like i said, a solid 2/3rds of the items you collect are passive income items (plants, seeds, bones, etc) and the only one with an intent to really collect is ore-types.

what is passive income about seeds? they're effectively the same as mining but you have to do another run after planting to actually turn them into something usable, imagine if you also had to take your ores that you mine and put them into a forge and then wait 20 whiles for them to cook before you could use them, absolutely asinine system in the most unfun way

[FhqwhTODD]

Originally posted by ffrotty:

So yeah, not only is your list incomplete, it's fairly useless as a list of "grinding" because a big chunk of it you just get by playing the game

That's usually how grinding is done by playinmg a game for way too long in hope to finally get to the fun part.

I personally think that there are way too many resources here. It's harder to understand and once you maxed what you can get from them they are just useless clutter.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Originally posted by Gottkaiser Fhqwhgod:

Originally posted by ffrotty:

So yeah, not only is your list incomplete, it's fairly useless as a list of "grinding" because a big chunk of it you just get by playing the game

That's usually how grinding is done by playinmg a game for way too long in hope to finally get to the fun part.

I personally think that there are way too many resources here. It's harder to understand and once you maxed what you can get from them they are just useless clutter.

Grinding means you're going out of your way.

Just playing a game normally getting stuff isn't grinding.

[FhqwhTODD]

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

Just playing a game normally getting stuff isn't grinding.

That depends on what you define as playing the game normally. Were you playing Hades 1 normally before maxing out the mirror? I don't believe you did. Up to that pioint you were grinding.

And even if I were to drop that point the other one remains. The first game had 3 currencies for meaningful character progression: Keys, Darkness & Titan Blood. These lost their value at different rates. If you want to you can add the Nectar & Ambrosia on top, but those also drop off quite quickly and become clutter or vendorfodder.

The new one has more currencies than a phone game that is trying to steal your money by obfuscating how much you spend behind a ton of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ currencies.