Momos nerf, ouch.

[Rhithik the Valient]

Overall, I am liking a lot of the changes I have been able to test. A lot of the weapons feel different, but better. However, Momos got what amounts to a quadruple nerf and that was way too much. It feels like Supergiant saw the speedrunner build and went "can't have that" and removed every aspect.

1) Nerf to all staff specials. It was made slower and given a knockback. This made an already underwhelming ability even more so. The knockback can have one of four outcomes: Enemy is immune to knockback, enemy is knocked INTO YOU and gets free damage, enemy is knocked away and saved from your abilities (reducing your damage), or you push away enemies to control the battlefield. In my quick test run, I experienced everything but the forth outcome. This sounds like it was meant to be a nerf paired with utility, but ends up as a double nerf.

2) Momos Nerf. Momos made the staff special build good, really good. At legendary with the proper Arcana, it was doing 60 damage a shot out the gate. When paired with double moonshot and Poseidon, you melted everything in the game. A nerf was needed here, but a complete rework was too far. A delayed repeat of any omega attack sounds good on paper, but that assumes stationary enemies, and you know how the most annoying enemies in the game love to just sit in place (sarcasm). And not to forget, your special now moves enemies, so you yourself can push them out of your abilities, yay anti-synergy.

3) Double Moonshot Daedalus changed to Dual Moonshot. You lose 40% range and your omega special now casts twice as well. IMO, this is the least bad of the nerfs and I can see how this could be good, even under the the Momos rework. However, while double moonshot was just "good," dual moonshot is "good if you have....." You also have to remember that with the Momos nerf, there is no staff with good specials off which to make a build. I mean, you can make a build, but it will be a shadow compared to what it could have been.

Momos was too strong of a weapon aspect, but sometimes a broken but simple and fun weapon is something a game needs. Revert this change and give the changes to a new weapon aspect, since they are not bad, just misplaced.

[Panda]

yet the staff special was the fastest for speed runs. so not surprised they slowed it down, was kind of broken with the one hammer to double the special, could just stand and burn the boss down skipping mechanics,

[Beastmister]

Rightly justified, tbh. Healing that ignored vows and upgradeable base power--TRIPLED at max rank--were questionable ideas. In a game that largely revolves around percentile bonuses to the base power of your abilities, having a scaling base power upgrade is a fickle design choice.
The healing was a blatant exploit, too.

[Tim]

While Aspect of Momus is definitely weaker than it was before, it's now a fun Aspect in its own right. It's the only Aspect I can think of currently that encourages use of Attacks AND Specials AND Casts, and when you manage to fill all those slots, it's a damage blender.

I do think the Special feels like garbage now, though. Like, what do you put on it besides Poseidon? Old Momus had such high base damage that it worked great with percentage damage bonuses even if it+Poseidon=OTP. Now that so many Hammers affect Specials and not just Special, maybe Special is meant to be a filler button to press between Omega Special uses...?

For Special, they need to turn up the base damage, take away the knockback, and either increase the range or the speed of the projectiles some. Or they need to redesign it entirely if they're worried about it being good leading to spamming from utter safetly. Cuz like, what else do you WANT it for, if not to spam from safety?

[Indochina]

Momus aspect was so cracked it was bound to be nerfed, and rightly so. I expected a damage reduction, but they went for a mechanic change, which is fine too.

That said, I just tried a run with it, and I absolutely steamrolled everything. Maybe I had luck on hammers but dang everything melted.
Getting 2 additional omega for free is kinda good. For the cast it's like having the hephaestus cast in the end, without the size reduction. And when you have the 300% damage special hammer, kinda good too on the special.

So the aspect is still very powerful, simply instead of a special focused weapon, you have a omega focus weapon which brings more variety as it could be attack/special and/or cast.

Overall I dig it, but will need to try it further

[Kenpachi Ramasama]

It was absolutely too powerful before the nerf, but I also completely agree with Tim's last paragraph. It's been neutered into the ground. I really enjoyed playing with a weapon that felt like the adamant rail again.

[Falco]

Yeah, Momus staff went from S tier to D tier in one patch lol
Want to add that the omega special is SO SLOW ugh, it's like they haven't realized very slow is pretty bad yet.

[TrashPrime]

momus was so unfathomably broken. flat damage to the safest most spammable move in the game. have not tried the rework yet but it absolutely was not gona make it to the final game as it was.

[moulala2]

I disagree. Momus was both horrendously broken and incredibly boring as an aspect; a complete rework is the best thing they could have done to it.

[Thaecrasis]

I've tried it a bit, and I see it *can* be pretty powerful, but you need a TON of magick regeneration to use it properly as you need to be spamming all three omega moves at once to get the most use out of it.

[Cunin]

While staff was pretty broken at the aspect level these changes affect all levels (before aspects and new players) and areas of the staff's use.

And the most severe effect is actually not at the aspect level, where the player has the option to do other things, but the starting.

The slower special + knockback behavior as a double nerf combined with the staff being the forced starter weapon leaves a starting player without functional range options (for a sustained period too, unlocking new weapons being as it is)

So the fix smashed the first impression any new players get of the game too.

I assume that is unintended as games would usually want to give new players a good impression.

The changes seem to have been somewhat poorly focused on what the problem was and now affects the game in other significant ways, not super great.

[Paladin Denfol]

RIP my favorite Momos build

[Lightgazer]

i just tried it with a cast build.. it was really really powerful. the cast lingered like normal then exploded - and exploded, and exploded. i tested it with a touch of give up mechanics to see some of the boons it may work well with. and except for apollo, it made each of the boons for casts happen for a single tick then omega cast again. so like zeus, he would do the fraction of a second lightning bolt once then omega blast. hesphasteus, did one single anvil hit then omega cast. demeter, one arctic circle then omega cast.
and just the omega cast alone seemed to have over 1000 damage after it fully proced. most the bosses are stationary enough.. at times.. for that to happen. so i think it's kinda powerful for a cast.

what i also noticed was that while it was good for cast, i could also still use the omega attack and omega special on top of it, and if they were fast enough, all three were hitting. so they synergized with the omega cast.

what i did notice though was that apollo stopped being good for it. the expanded cast made the first blast larger but the 2nd and 3rd were normal size, and the apollo solar ring only happened once.

so. imo, make a cast build, dash in, use omega cast. dash out. use omega attack on the primary target for the omega cast. dash out, watch the thing get hit for about almost 1500 in just a few seconds. add zeus's thunder lance to make it more painful, add demeter's artic cast circle, and maybe even the wind too for added damage, and if you happen to have that 25% damage to foes with 2 debuffs, all the damage those people now take will be just that much more amplified. i wouldn't say that's a total waste of time.

(the change to special sucks.. i don't really like enemies being knocked back when i don't want them to be knocked back)

[Soulcatcher]

Originally posted by moulala2:

I disagree. Momus was both horrendously broken and incredibly boring as an aspect; a complete rework is the best thing they could have done to it.

Totally agree.

[Rhithik the Valient]

I do want to clarify a point if anyone is reading this thread still. The new Momos is by no means bad. If they had introduced a new aspect with exactly this ability, I would have been super excited and I actually am excited to use it.

The original Momos filled a niche for the staff. Melinoe and Circe already encouraged normal attacks and omega attacks woven together. Normal specials just don't really weave in unless you are just about to trigger Circe Serenity. Momos took a part of the staff that was underutilized and made it the focus. This made it unique, different, and fun (even if simple, which can be a good thing). Now, Momos is a just third aspect focused on omega spam. We need an aspect to focus on normal special.

You also have to look at Momos from the aspect of Fear. At higher fear, you are often under many debuffs, many of which target your mana. At low or no fear, new Momos looks like an absolute beast. At high fear, it looks like a crippled child that needs the stars to align to succeed.

[moulala2]

Originally posted by Rhithik the Valient:

I do want to clarify a point if anyone is reading this thread still. The new Momos is by no means bad. If they had introduced a new aspect with exactly this ability, I would have been super excited and I actually am excited to use it.

The original Momos filled a niche for the staff. Melinoe and Circe already encouraged normal attacks and omega attacks woven together. Normal specials just don't really weave in unless you are just about to trigger Circe Serenity. Momos took a part of the staff that was underutilized and made it the focus. This made it unique, different, and fun (even if simple, which can be a good thing). Now, Momos is a just third aspect focused on omega spam. We need an aspect to focus on normal special.

You also have to look at Momos from the aspect of Fear. At higher fear, you are often under many debuffs, many of which target your mana. At low or no fear, new Momos looks like an absolute beast. At high fear, it looks like a crippled child that needs the stars to align to succeed.

I don't think the staff really needs an aspect centered around spamming one button. Even the most simple Hades 1 aspects like Nemesis encouraged you to use both attack and special, Momus was braindead even compared to that. It did focus on an underutilized part of the weapon, but just dumping a bunch of base damage on it is the least creative way to make the special useful. If weapons were going to have eight aspects each or something I'd be okay with it sticking around I guess, but I think we're probably just going to get four again so it would suck for the staff to have one of theirs be so lame. An aspect that focused on weaving normal attacks and specials would have been cool, and new Momus being yet another omega focused aspect is kind of annoying, but old Momus absolutely deserved to get binned.

I've seen the point about high fear and mana problems a lot, but I think that's more of an issue with the limited amount of modifiers pigeonholing you into vows that hurt your mana, not the aspect itself. Extreme measures alone will let you take less of those while maintaining 32 fear.