So when did a SWAT Sim turn into Call of Duty?

[Nobutto]

What happened to making a realistic game? Cause currently every map turns into a Call of Duty level with ♥♥♥♥ tons of "suspects".

First Mission: Gas station robbery gone wrong.
Expectation: I think oh a nice and easy start, with suspects who are jumpy but ready to cave due to them not being all that into fighting the police since it is a robbery gone wrong

Reality: One of the suspects kicks open the door and starts shooting. I think oh nice he is jumpy I put two JHP in him to make him retreat, I pull into cover myself to ready a flash to regain momentum only to find the suspect storming out towards me against an entire SWAT team as I get out to toss it.

Second Mission: Dirtbag streamer snapped killed his mom and is keeping his brother hostage
Expectation: Hostage situation 1 maybe 2 suspects, make as little noise as possible and use speed to catch him off guard

Reality: 11 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ suspects all ready to pick a fight with the police, end up slowly clearing room by room, floor by floor lethally making a ♥♥♥♥ ton of noise and still got an A+

Third mission: Raid a meth house
Expectation: IDFK anymore

Reality turn into a massive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shootout like every other map even had a meth head shooting outside from one house to the other accurately, like ok guess the perimeter isn't secure and the snipers called in sick that day

The game currently feels more like a war sim if the setting was something like Iraq it would make sense for all suspects to be hostile but you still have to think about civilians living in the city. It does not feel like a police sim with suspects that are way too willing to fight and there in general just being way too many compared to the situations portrayed. It feel more like some SOF MOUT game than a police game

[Toats]

You gotta control the area, If every mission is a shootout then you arn't wedging and wanding the doors. You have a team for a reason, they can cover you, or do actions for your while you control the area. The ai team mates especially are good at flashing and entering rooms, you can have red team cover your back and wedge the doors, while you stack blue team to enter a room. Or if your met with a 3 way hallway the bots will split into 2 directions so its impossible to get caught off guard.
Suspects are also less likely to shoot you if they have their back turned, but if you are directly in front of them they will panic.
The briefing also lets you know what kind of lethality you need to bring, against small arms and unarmored suspects you can afford to go in with heavy steel armor, and non lethal weapons. Methheads are meant to be unpredictable, but they cant tolerate stuns.

[Bread]

Hate to tell you my guy but.. Skill issue

[killjoy]

I'm stuck halfway through mission 2 with a bug, but I agree I went in expecting to deal with a BP instead it's a dozen dudes all with automatic weapons fighting you to the death.

It's not a SWAT sim in the slightest, in real life most BP's that aren't successfully negotiated with end up either shooting themselves (Which doesn't make for a great game, i know) or they succumb to less lethal/chemical and are brought in alive.

This is just a tac shooter which is good in it's own right, but it's a long way from being a SWAT game sadly.

[Nobutto]

Originally posted by Toats:

You gotta control the area, If every mission is a shootout then you arn't wedging and wanding the doors. You have a team for a reason, they can cover you, or do actions for your while you control the area. The ai team mates especially are good at flashing and entering rooms, you can have red team cover your back and wedge the doors, while you stack blue team to enter a room. Or if your met with a 3 way hallway the bots will split into 2 directions so its impossible to get caught off guard.
Suspects are also less likely to shoot you if they have their back turned, but if you are directly in front of them they will panic.
The briefing also lets you know what kind of lethality you need to bring, against small arms and unarmored suspects you can afford to go in with heavy steel armor, and non lethal weapons. Methheads are meant to be unpredictable, but they cant tolerate stuns.

You missed the point. Ofcourse i use the wedge and the wand, that just how you play the game well which is why i still get A's. And i felt like going through the 3 maps made quite clear what i expected vs what i got

The point is a real police situation is not going into a hostage situation shotting left and right clearing room by room. But every map plays like its a terrorist compound being raided by a SOF team and not like an actual police situation like in SWAT4. For instance in SWAT 4 f
Fairfax residence only had one suspect because that is what made sense for the scenario, the similar scenario in RoN is an 11 highrise clear which makes no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sense

[Nobutto]

Originally posted by Sneaky Banana:

Hate to tell you my guy but.. Skill issue

How is getting A´s a skill issue. Its not that the game is hard its just not a police game

[killjoy]

Originally posted by Sneaky Banana:

Hate to tell you my guy but.. Skill issue

Nah, not matter what you do, no matter how many flashbangs, gas, stingers you use they always fight you. I haven't had a single suspect surrender yet and i'm being very "Tacticool"

[Jackerino]

Originally posted by Nobutto:

Reality: One of the suspects kicks open the door and starts shooting. I think oh nice he is jumpy I put two JHP in him to make him retreat, I pull into cover myself to ready a flash to regain momentum only to find the suspect storming out towards me against an entire SWAT team as I get out to toss it.

The reason why this happened was because the suspects are crack addicts and behave unpredictably, while also being generally uncooperative and dangerous. They literally killed the store clerk after all.

If you have poor map control there's many times where suspects will simply wander out towards you guys because they are either unaware of your presence or are hyper aggressive. Otherwise, your expectations are pretty close to reality in this mission if you play the game correctly. Suspects on this mission have pretty low morale and will even surrender without any engagements based on how armored your team is, as well as depending on what kind of weapons your team has. Suspects on this mission also are very likely to surrender when you deal with or handle other Suspects.

Originally posted by Nobutto:

Second Mission: Dirtbag streamer snapped killed his mom and is keeping his brother hostage
Expectation: Hostage situation 1 maybe 2 suspects, make as little noise as possible and use speed to catch him off guard

Reality: 11 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ suspects all ready to pick a fight with the police, end up slowly clearing room by room, floor by floor lethally making a ♥♥♥♥ ton of noise and still got an A+

The streamer didn't actually kill their family. It was you responding to a fake SWAT call. You're right about the fact that it's weird you got an A+ but the reason why there was a lot of fighting was because you essentially randomly stormed a ghetto apartment complex full of armed gangsters and infiltrated an illegal crypto ring that was funding various criminal enterprises.

Originally posted by Nobutto:

Third mission: Raid a meth house
Expectation: IDFK anymore

Reality turn into a massive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shootout like every other map even had a meth head shooting outside from one house to the other accurately, like ok guess the perimeter isn't secure and the snipers called in sick that day

This is how it was before the update. You're literally raiding a massive drug manufacturing spot that multiple gangs have put their hands into, with most of the manufacturers being unpredictable drug addicts themselves.

Originally posted by Nobutto:

The game currently feels more like a war sim if the setting was something like Iraq it would make sense for all suspects to be hostile but you still have to think about civilians living in the city. It does not feel like a police sim with suspects that are way too willing to fight and there in general just being way too many compared to the situations portrayed. It feel more like some SOF MOUT game than a police game

It genuinely isn't that bad; there's important context for every mission and if you're playing sloppily and aren't properly establishing map control you're going to have a lot of shootouts with panicked and confused suspects. What, did you expect to just go into the gas station and have the crackheads instantly surrender? Not only would that be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game, but, you're SWAT; the reason you're there is BECAUSE they aren't cooperating and are choosing to be violent. If a surgical operation wasn't required to regain control of the situation, then SWAT wouldn't have been called.

[Jackerino]

Originally posted by killjoy:

Originally posted by Sneaky Banana:

Hate to tell you my guy but.. Skill issue

Nah, not matter what you do, no matter how many flashbangs, gas, stingers you use they always fight you. I haven't had a single suspect surrender yet and i'm being very "Tacticool"

You must be getting really unlucky man. It's pretty easy to get suspects to surrender, especially when your team is clearing a room with you

[The Milkman]

2nd mission is bad intel, the neighbours are hearing "gunfire" which is from the game the streamer is playing, his mother isn't dead but in the other apartment he owns, the 3rd apartment is a where the crime is happening, streamer has a side gig as a gang runner with a server (doing what I can only guess)

You want tense, do the rust belt mission.

[Ibuprofen]

Originally posted by Nobutto:

Originally posted by Sneaky Banana:

Hate to tell you my guy but.. Skill issue

How is getting A´s a skill issue. Its not that the game is hard its just not a police game

That is true. 80% of the scenarios feel completely overblown. Like straight up terrorism by paramilitary groups rather than organized crime.
Everyone, their mother, and their dog shoots AP rounds piercing through almost everything. No one wants to give up, unless being directly stunned by something. This game feels oddly close to “Six days in Falluhja” and way less than SWAT 1-4.

I know the US is a place full of poverty and crime. But this game makes it seem like the country is a warzone where everyone is ready to die.

[Unrealtairo]

I agree, the 2nd mission intel is massively off.

[Nobutto]

Originally posted by Jackerino:

Originally posted by Nobutto:

Reality: One of the suspects kicks open the door and starts shooting. I think oh nice he is jumpy I put two JHP in him to make him retreat, I pull into cover myself to ready a flash to regain momentum only to find the suspect storming out towards me against an entire SWAT team as I get out to toss it.

The reason why this happened was because the suspects are crack addicts and behave unpredictably, while also being generally uncooperative and dangerous. They literally killed the store clerk after all.

If you have poor map control there's many times where suspects will simply wander out towards you guys because they are either unaware of your presence or are hyper aggressive. Otherwise, your expectations are pretty close to reality in this mission if you play the game correctly. Suspects on this mission have pretty low morale and will even surrender without any engagements based on how armored your team is, as well as depending on what kind of weapons your team has. Suspects on this mission also are very likely to surrender when you deal with or handle other Suspects.

Originally posted by Nobutto:

Second Mission: Dirtbag streamer snapped killed his mom and is keeping his brother hostage
Expectation: Hostage situation 1 maybe 2 suspects, make as little noise as possible and use speed to catch him off guard

Reality: 11 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ suspects all ready to pick a fight with the police, end up slowly clearing room by room, floor by floor lethally making a ♥♥♥♥ ton of noise and still got an A+

The streamer didn't actually kill their family. It was you responding to a fake SWAT call. You're right about the fact that it's weird you got an A+ but the reason why there was a lot of fighting was because you essentially randomly stormed a ghetto apartment complex full of armed gangsters and infiltrated an illegal crypto ring that was funding various criminal enterprises.

Originally posted by Nobutto:

Third mission: Raid a meth house
Expectation: IDFK anymore

Reality turn into a massive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shootout like every other map even had a meth head shooting outside from one house to the other accurately, like ok guess the perimeter isn't secure and the snipers called in sick that day

This is how it was before the update. You're literally raiding a massive drug manufacturing spot that multiple gangs have put their hands into, with most of the manufacturers being unpredictable drug addicts themselves.

Originally posted by Nobutto:

The game currently feels more like a war sim if the setting was something like Iraq it would make sense for all suspects to be hostile but you still have to think about civilians living in the city. It does not feel like a police sim with suspects that are way too willing to fight and there in general just being way too many compared to the situations portrayed. It feel more like some SOF MOUT game than a police game

It genuinely isn't that bad; there's important context for every mission and if you're playing sloppily and aren't properly establishing map control you're going to have a lot of shootouts with panicked and confused suspects. What, did you expect to just go into the gas station and have the crackheads instantly surrender? Not only would that be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game, but, you're SWAT; the reason you're there is BECAUSE they aren't cooperating and are choosing to be violent. If a surgical operation wasn't required to regain control of the situation, then SWAT wouldn't have been called.

Ever been around a real crack addict? Yea they can be unpredicatable as it hightens their confidence and makes them hyperactive, it does not make them borderline suicidal or agressive

Yea because thats how a ghetto is, news flash its not, only how it is in the movies. How often do you hear police raids in ghettos turning into massive shootouts?

Yea your rading a people on crack ill go back to my previous statementon crack. Most drug raids dont end in shootouts because gennerally its not worth dying over. Your not raiding a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cartel

Play SWAT 4 which this game claims to be a spiratuel successor to. It wasnt a bad game despite its suspects being more realistic

[Nobutto]

Originally posted by H.R. Pufnstuf:

2nd mission is bad intel, the neighbours are hearing "gunfire" which is from the game the streamer is playing, his mother isn't dead but in the other apartment he owns, the 3rd apartment is a where the crime is happening, streamer has a side gig as a gang runner with a server (doing what I can only guess)

You want tense, do the rust belt mission.

Yea i know, but that not the issue the issue is how it turns into a massive gun fight with gang members that act more like terrorists or soldiers than actual gang members

[Leo]

I totally agree, if you don't use flashbangs in every room and corner the AI will not surrender, even if you surprise them from behind, even if they have just a knife and you have the whole team with you, they will rush you. Some people will point out you can use non lethal weapons but their range and effectiveness is not that great and that misses the whole point: the AI is too agressive and WILL NOT comply unless you spam flashbangs.

Also yes, crackheads can be unpredicatable but all AI behaves the same! Is every living soul in los suenos addicted to crack? And does every addict turn into an agressive accurate mf?

[AntiChrist]

Originally posted by Leo:

I totally agree, if you don't use flashbangs in EVERY ROOM the AI will never surrender, even if they have just a knife they will always rush your team. Some people will point out you can use non lethal weapons but their range and effectiveness is not that great and that misses the whole point: the AI is too agressive and WILL NOT comply unless you spam flashbangs.

This is just false, you have to shoot them, ever heard of non lethal points of contact? stop aiming to kill everyone and aim to subdue. Their stress level changes based on a few things, and being shot is one of them. Either you aren't trying hard enough for non lethal, or you need to bring non lethal weapons if you believe "it's too hard" bc ur shooting them with LIVE ROUNDS