[Suggestion] RoN needs to stop with the Police vs Military focus and return to its roots

[Nu_Gundam]

RoN needs to go straight back to its roots in delivering the most realistic SWAT scenarios.

I don't know whose fantasy in Void it is to have police fighting against military loadouts, but this needs to stop. It is forcing a loadout meta that is absolutely awful in terms of making the game more fun.

We have so many cool lower caliber weapons and gear choices such as stab vests, and the game can be easily positioned to utilize them by designing practical map layouts and threats. Not expansive million dollar mansions, but simple locations grounded in ultra realism whether it be residential houses, small businesses, banks, etc. Instead, we always get million dollar mansions, an entire city block containing a car dealership, etc... All guarded by 15+ suspects that often carry enough military loadouts to force the change in the loadout meta. Void is always over-stretching a single element's effectiveness in its ability to provide coverage and to contain the situation.

What I would like to see is a change in RoN's map design philosophy. Instead of what would be cool or challenging, just make realistic locations and place the challenge in how clean we can pull off the operation. By that I mean, instead of the current focus on sweeping the map and picking off suspects before we get mag dumped, it should be the point where we make the dynamic or stealth entry. These shortcut crevices for suspects don't need to exist either. Instead, the suspects should actually be hiding in the room (trying to shoot from their position as well), or actually setting up barricades so we have more excuses to deploy the C2. And why don't we allow trying to negotiate with the suspects? I remember in SWAT 2, that aspect made the game really cool and immersive. Imagine if in RoN, you could also give the suspects a chance to escape by providing them with an escape vehicle as part of fulfilling their demands!

I get that the Los Suenos setting means that we're understaffed and under-gunned, but the inability to resupply, replace damaged plates, or change your loadout at the SWAT Truck doesn't make a lot of sense for how realistic this game is being portrayed. Wouldn't it be way more fun to use a point-buy system to take out extra ammo, refill plates, and etc? Thus, we could be managing the PD's budget by utilizing cheaper 9mm ammo and etc, which would add an insanely good element to the game: Immersion!

I feel that the current leadership behind RoN has lost the plot, and RoN needs to go back to its roots in portraying realism. We don't need theme-park levels. We need an assortment of realistic scenarios in realistic locations, and the ability to play them on repeat.

My $0.02.

Edit:
An example of what I want to see from map design philosophy going forwards would be to create a single map but with multiple/randomized room variations to essentially create the illusion of going to a new location each time. Obviously, if it was the same layout each time, then it would get boring much faster. I want replayability, and this would be one way to achieve it while allowing for faster map development because you no longer need to make an expansive map filled with unique looking areas, just a bunch of room variations.

[Bluecher76]

I am totally on the same boat like you and I really would love to see much more realistic POLICE (!) MISSIONS and not this kind of civil wars :), but a lot of people are always saying that such realistic missions would be too boring/easy and most players want this total unrealistic militarystyle action missions... I fear that they are right and that a game like this sells better this way (?).
Cheers!

[Shadeball]

What, it's TOTALLY realistic to have a bunch of ladies in homemade dresses rocking full battle rifles like the G3A1 with the skill of a veteran soldier. What could be strange about that?

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

As Blue mentioned, it is a problem of actual fun gameplay versus realism. "Simulator" or even the realism you are asking for is not fun. You do not want to be playing as a SWAT team sitting outside of a house for 8 hours just to find out the guy shot himself. You do not want to respond to a mass shooting only to find out the police have already cleared the building. You do not want the average map to be going into a 5 room house and after shouting clear the map.

RoN goes for as realistic as playable, and a huge part of that is simply what is fun. I don't have the numbers, but I assume Void will soon, and I doubt you'll see that the smallest maps in-game are currently the most played or popular (Lethal Obsession, Ends of Earth, etc.,) despite how much people say they want "realistic" maps.

[Major Fret]

Originally posted by 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner:

I doubt you'll see that the smallest maps in-game are currently the most played or popular (Lethal Obsession, Ends of Earth, etc.,)

Lethal Obsession reached 2nd in the polling data for most popular maps when VOID ran a survey (a survey where they had to exclude Gas, AKA another small map).

[Selena Ulvehyl]

Originally posted by Nu_Gundam:

I feel that the current leadership behind RoN has lost the plot, and RoN needs to go back to its roots in portraying realism. We don't need theme-park levels. We need an assortment of realistic scenarios in realistic locations, and the ability to play them on repeat.

I agree with you, but just you wait, soon we'll see a theme park, a museum and a zoo!

[Viper Vapor 419]

Originally posted by 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner:

As Blue mentioned, it is a problem of actual fun gameplay versus realism. "Simulator" or even the realism you are asking for is not fun. You do not want to be playing as a SWAT team sitting outside of a house for 8 hours just to find out the guy shot himself. You do not want to respond to a mass shooting only to find out the police have already cleared the building. You do not want the average map to be going into a 5 room house and after shouting clear the map.

RoN goes for as realistic as playable, and a huge part of that is simply what is fun. I don't have the numbers, but I assume Void will soon, and I doubt you'll see that the smallest maps in-game are currently the most played or popular (Lethal Obsession, Ends of Earth, etc.,) despite how much people say they want "realistic" maps.

You guys portrayed this game as the spiritual successor to SWAT 4. Instead we got Rainbow Six Siege with terry hunt type enemies.

[-SIBERIANWOLF-]

yeah dont like the game everything is strange the ai the missions all sucks somehow
the first beta was fun with back story for the crims and stuff now just boom boom spray the through the wall yuck

[BrotherMurus]

Originally posted by 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner:

As Blue mentioned, it is a problem of actual fun gameplay versus realism

Don't know how you imagine such dichotomy since that was not what op said originally, and then giving a bunch of hyperbolic examples which no one has ever said. Negotiation can be a good immersive mechanic if implemented well.

Originally posted by Nu_Gundam:

Void is always over-stretching a single element's effectiveness in its ability to provide coverage and to contain the situation.

This is the crux of the matter, you either expand the capabilities of a single element to minimize the risk, or you give more elements for better coverage. I doubt the later would happen though given how UE5 performs, but RoN is rather lacking in the tactical options to further the immersive experience other than a corridor shooter with horror elements, and horror means : You have no control over the situation, the opposite of being tactical.

[✘States]

I just came back to the game after buying a more proper PC. What the hell is happening, how much did I miss out on while I was just not caught up with the game

[Silent Hunter]

let people play how they want

[Stuka White]

SWAT4 was mega fun because it ran believable missions for police SWAT, but also had an editor where you could ezpz turn a simple gas station robbery into a street takeover in Fallujah if you wanted it.

[RickySauce]

this game takes place in america bruv

[Origin]

Originally posted by 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner:

As Blue mentioned, it is a problem of actual fun gameplay versus realism. "Simulator" or even the realism you are asking for is not fun. You do not want to be playing as a SWAT team sitting outside of a house for 8 hours just to find out the guy shot himself. You do not want to respond to a mass shooting only to find out the police have already cleared the building. You do not want the average map to be going into a 5 room house and after shouting clear the map.

RoN goes for as realistic as playable, and a huge part of that is simply what is fun. I don't have the numbers, but I assume Void will soon, and I doubt you'll see that the smallest maps in-game are currently the most played or popular (Lethal Obsession, Ends of Earth, etc.,) despite how much people say they want "realistic" maps.

Lethal Obsession, Ends of Earth are significantly more realistic than missions like the chemical weapon retrieval in DLC 2 and the oil rig. None of that is the job of SWAT and moreso the military.

And nobody even brought up the initial situations you said which obviously nobody is talking about.

You're getting clown reacted for a reason. Missions like Ends of the Earth are exactly what people want and its very clear VOID is literally watching CBS' S.W.A.T. and going "write that down! write that down!!"

[Pan_de]

SWAT 4 also had plenty of military grade missions later on dont kid yourself.

As for realism it´s all about AI what makes a realistic game realistic and fun. AI in RoN is certainly state of the art imo, BUT it is by far not enough to make it simulate a REALISTIC setting.
As things are if you have to storm any building with a few rooms. All you need to do is throw in a flashbang or gas into each room and then pretty much everyone surrenders. You might find that the "realistic" option in terms of how well the AI can work as of now, but i doubt it´s fun.

[Cmdr. Lumpus]

COMPLETELY AGREED!!!!!!