PSA: SMGs are completely useless. Don't bother using them.

[Amplifier]

I don't know why these guns are even in the game for. They were completely 100% useless since the very beg. and still are today. The new MP5SD6 I tried for example, took like 2 freaking magazines to just take down one suspect. Yes, 2 FREAKING magazines. None missed. The suspect didn't even freaking flinched while being riddled with all the rounds at full-auto. And if you take a look at the actual gun's statistics, you can also see the SMGs all have abysmal damage ratings.

So why use an SMG at all? Some people had reasoned that SMGs had one advantage of allowing you to peek through doors better. Except this is just pointless when you can already use your pistol to do the same. Oh yeah, and your pistol actually does more damage than your SMG. I wish I was kidding.

A rifle accomplishes everything else so much better. Even the shotgun is very useful at close range. So again, why use SMGs for?

[Amplifier]

I also read one 'advantage' of SMGs is that it allows you to incap suspects instead, which is why they're utterly useless for killing. But if so, why dont just use the non-lethal guns which can actually guarantee you a 'S' rating instead a half-assed 'A+' rating?

I've so far only used SMGs now when playing zombie mode 'cos it still feels cool to wield a P90 or MP5 but otherwise it's a really useless gun type in this game (I think in real life too which is why SWAT doesnt carry SMGs)

[Poildanlnez]

Do you use the right type of ammo against the different types of ennemies? Also, I actually find a use for such low damage, like shooting them in their body armor as a warning when they just shot at me, and then yell for compliance.

[Dark (-z-) Light]

In reality an SMG is indeed very very deadly.

[Cryptic]

um, no. they work just fine for my team and i lol.

[Grubbs008]

Originally posted by Poildanlnez:

Do you use the right type of ammo against the different types of ennemies? Also, I actually find a use for such low damage, like shooting them in their body armor as a warning when they just shot at me, and then yell for compliance.

Yeah but you see the problem with that is, they don't comply, and then when you do actually put them down, you get -50 to -150 points for force. Because it's broken.

[Maki Nishikino]

Originally posted by Amplifier:

I've so far only used SMGs now when playing zombie mode 'cos it still feels cool to wield a P90 or MP5 but otherwise it's a really useless gun type in this game (I think in real life too which is why SWAT doesnt carry SMGs)

It's not that they're useless. It's that carbines have replaced them more or less.

[[ACPL] Jon]

Skill \ mod issue.

Even armored suspects go down with just a few bodyshots from 9 mm AP \ FMJ ammo.
You either broke the game with bad mods, encountered a bug or tried to kill an armored guy with JHP rounds landing pretty much all the shots into the armored parts.

SMG's are a godsend when you're looking for a realistic (as in, non full-NL) loadout that gives a chance for suspects to NOT die when shot and also gives you a chance if they actually try to die really hard (by continuing to shoot at you furiously).

[Poildanlnez]

Originally posted by ACPL Jon_Gra_TTV:

Skill \ mod issue.

Even armored suspects go down with just a few bodyshots from 9 mm AP \ FMJ ammo.
You either broke the game with bad mods, encountered a bug or tried to kill an armored guy with JHP rounds landing pretty much all the shots into the armored parts.

SMG's are a godsend when you're looking for a realistic (as in, non full-NL) loadout that gives a chance for suspects to NOT die when shot and also gives you a chance if they actually try to die really hard (by continuing to shoot at you furiously).

This.
Might actually indeed be a mod issue, I know that a lot of mods change the damage system.
Also, the MP7 is the perfect SMG for ground control and spraying the enemy, providing you use the right ammo for the job.

[Muu]

Depends what you're doing with them. Headshot challenge runs are fun with pistols/smgs. If you don't go for headshots, they work fine on many base-game missions. The problem is armor penetration in more difficult missions, especially on the new dark waters missions.

[SWIFT]

I like them

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

I quite like SMGs as the weapon you can consistently control using full auto, but if you are aiming at chests (especially when you see they're armored), it's on you. It works best at hitting limbs and headshots and is quite lethal that way. Takes way less than a mag to leg dump someone or finish them with a headshot.

[Carnifex]

SMGs definitely have a place in the sandbox. Read/listen to the mission briefings and check out the descriptions of the media and suspects to know what you are going up against. If you believe they have body armor, use AP rounds. Especially for the MP7 or P90 since those guns are designed to deal with body armor. Always go full auto or burst to take down suspects. If you believe the suspects don't have body armor, use the JHP rounds for any of the SMGs. SMGs are short, even with a suppressor, making them very easier to maneuver around obstacles. SMGs have less violent recoil compared to rifles and are more predictable.

[Michael]

They're not that bad but they do seem to underperform when faced with armored suspects.

[Hairy Mouse]

they are meant to not overpenetrate and not kill the people you shoot. which, thats not how you use a gun, you dont just say well, ill just shoot people with .380 instead of 5.56 so it doesnt kill them as much. The goal is to neutralize the threat, not even to necessarily kills people. IF you want to be less lethal, use less lethal. But yeah, it seems to me that they are just there so the people you shoot dont ever actually die. Even with a 5.56, like 90% of the time it doesnt even kill the suspect after multiple center mass shots, which is weird. Unless you headshot or use 7.62, it seems that bullets in this game just make you sleepy. You get double tapped to the chest with a 5.56, you're DONE. You can't even says its armor, cause its not. armor doesnt make bullets hurt you less. it either stops them or it doesnt, not just take a few extra. you have a IIIA vest, and get hit with a 9mm, might hurt, but youll be just fine. a 5.56 will treat it the same as a t shirt. If someone is wearing a III+ (or more realistically IV), 5.56 will do diddly squat. It wont even hurt you. and you literally take a full mag dump of 9mm like superman, while standing there twiddling your thumbs.

They really need to rebalance ballistics in this game, and also make armor perform as it should, for the player and npc. Also, it would be good to see incapacitated states. something between down and up. Maybe they arent lying motionless, but they are crawling or rolling around, but still outta the fight. That would be more relistic than everybody becoming just instantly knocked out or dead. It would work as a transitional state, too, because even a fatal shot doesnt usually turn you off like a light switch. would be good to have a transitional animation after being shot before they die/bleed out, pass out, or surrender. Only a shot to the brain, upper spine/brain stem, or heart instantly and totally incapacitates a person from 9mm, 10mm, .45 ACP, .300 AAC, 7.62x39, 5.7, and 5.56. 7.62x51 CAN from hydrostatic shock and energy transfer to surrounding tissue near critical areas, but you still gotta be close.

Thats the ONE THING you never EVER seen in shooters. Almost nobody just instantly turns off from a shot the the stomach or lungs or neck, and every game, even if you shoot them like 10 times in the fingers, they just deactivate. Id like to see realistic gun shot reactions/animations in just ONE game. PLEASE

[HandsomeJack762]

"Stacked em 5ft high, used em as sand bags"-Average UZI owner in the early 90s.